Laine

Whatever, I'm done with this and HO.

You're lucky to have a dog park; I have none at all available to me, so kind'a have to adapt. In the end, you're still saying the same thing Sid; if they like a sibe, fine, but the moment they want it offlead, they shouldn't get it. That's not fair at all. *shrug* Your opinion though so we'll agree to disagree. No dog can be 100% trusted, IMO. None, not even those trained reliably. We're not talking electric boundary fences though, they're a whole other kettle of fish and whole other debate. The problem is it still seems - to me at least - you're lumping anyone who uses a shock in with those who use them reliably. Though I agree, the ones who use them all the time don't have a reliably trained dog for recall, they have it trained for recall while the collar is on. That said, I don't think the people here who've used it do this, or even advocate using them like this.

That's not fair to say, Sid, at all. People get Sibes for LOTS of reasons. And just because someone might want them off lead, and train them for off lead, doesn't mean they shouldn't get the dog. That's like people telling us we can't have our Sibes inside the house because it's cruel, they were meant for outdoor life and living in minus fifty/sixty degree weather. Or telling people who live on or around the equator they can't have a Sibe because it's too hot there and they were not bred/built for that environment. You get on the "if you don't like this or fit this criteria for the breed, you shouldn't have it" and you can start cherry picking things for all breeds. Heck, if this is the case, no one should have the breeds they have at all, for one reason or another, UNLESS they are doing as the breed was made for. So, no terriers for people who don't use them to handle rats and do earth hunting, no hunting hounds if they don't hunt, no pointers if they don't bird, no herding dogs if they don't do herding, etc and so on. And no, it doesn't matter if they do other sports with their dogs because they're not doing what the breed was intended. See how stupid this gets with that kept in mind? Some people use SC's and Pinches and other ways to train their dogs, that's on them. Some people keep their dogs on lead and train only minimally, that's on them. That does NOT make EITHER choice wrong and right now BOTH sides of this debate - for and against - are becoming that stubborn, "No, you're wrong!" and... well... other things for someone DARING to do something with their dog that they don't approve of. To bring all this back on topic; if I want to train for a dog sport that requires a dog be off lead - obedience, agility, companion dogs, dock diving, etc - and a sc would help me train a reliable dog off lead, AND if nothing else worked for my dog, yes, I would use a sc. But that is if nothing else would work. I personally would prefer not to use one. That said, if someone who does know how to use them properly uses them for their dogs, who are you, me or anyone else to tell them no it's wrong, it's evil, it's harming the dog, etc and so on? Are you using it? Do you know? Those in this thread have said, multiple times, that they've used the sc on their dogs at a low setting and that they have tested it on themselves as well. These people aren't just throwing these on and setting them on high settings and honestly it's not fair that the users here seem to be lumped in with the idiots who DO use them improperly. At the same time, there are people who don't use them and would never use them, that they would prefer to have their dog on lead at all time. That doesn't make their dogs less trained or less loved, less cared about or less anything. Just means that's how their owners want their dogs to be. To say "you won't know less you try it" does make sense, yes, but it also comes across like you're pushing people who don't believe in these things to use them, kind'a like the kid who tries to push other kids to do something they don't want (peer pressure anyone?). So they don't want their dogs off lead; they have them on leads long enough to allow for running and that's all that should matter. (for the record, while 100ft leads are made, I haven't found ANY that I can get here, and I even checked E-bay, so I'm stuck with 30ft lunge lines, or putting two or more together, a PITA really). In the end, so long as the dogs are happy, EITHER WAY (sc or no sc), then really, who cares?

This; I actually agree with this totally and it's probably why you don't see huskies competing in a lot of dog sports, especially if you can get an "easier" breed to train like a BC, GSD or even Malinois. Which is sad in a way, because seeing a Sibe do obedience or agility or what have you looks pretty friggin' awesome, especially when there are so few doing it.

I don't think anyone here is saying that though? I think it's more so that people want safety nets in place if their dogs do get off lead. Although, I also see it from the other side of the fence that people probably get annoyed when it's suggested their dogs can't or shouldn't be off lead.

I do have to agree Nik that 231q (LOL - Shi evidently wanted to say hi?) I have to agree that the training you've done with Skyla is awesome so far. Mucho impressed.

While it's a shock collar debate, I think the whole offlead thing links to it which is why it's being brought up. In the end, if the dogs are happy - whether with or without the shock collar - it's all good. Having the dogs happy is the point, isn't it?

After posting up my video of Shila off lead, a friend of mine - who has GSD's - asked me this: "Why do they do this, though? Why do they run away and don't come back? Are a GSD's high-prey drive and a Husky's high-prey drive completely apples and oranges? Is it that Huskies just don't bond that closely with their owners the way some other breeds do? Is it because the wolf heritage of the Husky is closer to the surface than it is in other breeds, and so you have a dog who retains more of those primal instincts?" So, what is the answers to these questions, in your opinion/experiences? I would also add, are Huskies the highest prey-driven dog out there and as such that's why they can't be recalled off lead? Because as she mentioned, GSD's are pretty high prey driven, and so are BC's and a lot of other breeds. I've talked about the dog trainer Susan Garrett before; its her belief that any dog of any breed can be trained to recall reliably and be allowed off lead, it's a matter of having the right training and proper importance placed on the handler/owner. I brought up the issue of Sibes and their high prey drive but there were many who said it didn't matter about the breed; reliable recall could be trained and dogs offlead could be achieved. So what do you think?

As much as there's good food, it's seriously expensive, so much so I'm debating the switch to raw even more because it might actually be cheaper in the end. But I'm still on the fence about it. Orion used to inhale his food when he was younger, so I hand fed him for a while. It forced him to slow down and chew his food for which I'm thankful for. I actually hate when dogs inhale their food too quickly. Then again, right now it's a pain that my two take too long.

I originally fed them "Go!" grain free/all stages dog kibble but switched to Taste of the Wild because there's more of it. I also feed them raw every two or three days, usually just chicken or pork riblets with the odd beef thrown in. I see it as a treat, plus gives them a little extra something special and with Orion just trying to get a little more weight on him. He'll be 8 months this month and I noticed a few nights ago he had the hiccups, so maybe a growth spurt coming? Who knows. When I feed their kibble, I actually feed Shila only a cup and Orion about two and a half; sometimes they won't even eat all of that, sometimes they'll clean the bowls. Really depends on what we've done that day. Shi actually has more weight on her now than when I first got her. They're both such dainty eaters, Shi more than Orion, but they both take their time and chew their kibble when they eat instead of inhaling it.

I don't think it's looking good for me to go this year. I was so hoping I could. Well, fingers crossed for next year.

These were taken at my parents place. I was trying to get a good stance picture of both the dogs so I could work on looking at a dog's conformation. As you can tell, Shila is so much smaller at Ri it's almost funny, almost not.

Hey! I thought this was a family forum you two!

I'll just say I agree with the others; it's a tool, in the wrong hands, it can harm but in trained hands it can help. Would I use it on my two? Not without training; that said if I had the training I would probably use one on Orion, but only if any other training I did with him did not work. E-collars, to me, should be a last resort thing if nothing else works.

Video three; offlead recalls and engagement. rHmBGCzjl38