BLOODLINE ZERO

[husky princess]

The zeros I know are females & very small in build so I guess I can see that they would be easier to walk to the start line. I'm always amazed at seeing zero's run, they're like rockets

[Sarah]

I have a friend who has 5 - they're like bullets!! Although proud to admit my boys actually overtook her at a training session once :D

[lurchybold]

Being a bit thick, what are zero bloodlines ?

[husky princess]

It's a bloodline within the pedigree called zero who are well known for amazing runners for speed

[ocspirit]

Zero isnt the only line that there is dispute on its "purity" however it is one of the quickest to cause debates. Being a younger musher I don't know much about the disputes or the bloodlines since I wasnt involved in the sport during that time (heck I wasn't even born yet lol). I do know the big dispute isn't so much the fact that zero dogs were beating all the other teams by huge strides, but rather WHY. Any kennel that has both sibes and Alaskan huskies raises eyebrows regarding the purity of the sibes if they suddenly start running exceptionally well. Here in Ontario and Michigan the big debate is over the Lokiboden lines. Lokiboden Sibes are so fast that they give the Open Class dogs a run for their money! People theorize that they must be outcrossed but nothing has ever been proven with facts and the kennel is rather hush about their practices to the point of not releasing/selling any dogs under a year of age. They keep all pups until they can determine how well they do or don't in harness. The ones that aren't exceptional get culled (as in spayed/neutered and sold). You can acquire a good sled dog from them and have it remain intact but you have to prove your worth first.

Manitou Crossing Kennels is another kennel that has been accused of outcrossing their Siberians to Alaskan Huskies since they have both in the yard. At the end of the day it just comes down to either closing an eye on the "what could be" OR deciding whether you trust their claims or not. The racing team I am running this year is mostly Lokiboden lines. They are all papered and they all run as a purebred Siberian Husky. I honestly believe that they are. Sure, they may not look like what most people imagine a Siberian to me but that can easily be explained with Selective Breeding. The Sue and Leigh Gilchrest who own Lokiboden kennels are both geneticists. They know the exact science behind breeding for selected traits (in this case an ideal sprint dog). They can get away with close genetics because they know how to breed without having things go wrong. But it only makes sense that while doing this other traits (ie. looks, coat type, even calories needed) start "wandering" from the original form but of course is consistent due to the tight breeding.

Should Zero line still be banned? I dont think so, like already mentioned at this point its so dilute that the current dog would be considered a purebred Siberian again anyway regardless of its pedigree history. Should any Siberian line be banned? On pretenses alone, no. But if someone were to buy a dog from Kennel "A" and have a DNA test done that proves that it indeed has been outcrossed then that for sure would be something to look into. Cant ban a kennel simply due to one specimen from that kennel though. After all, the kennel owners may not even realize the outcrossing happened. The pup could be from a litter that was dual-sired without the owners knowing.

Hung papers, dual-sired litters and paper falsification happens in ALL breeds, not just Siberians. You have Yorkies crossed with Silkies sold as Yorkies.....American Pitbulls crossed with American Bulldogs sold as American Bulldogs (*cough* Painter lines)...Pit Bulls crossed with Mastiffs sold as pit bulls...German Shepherd crossed with Dutch Shepherd sold as German Shepherd....and so on

[raindog]

Here in Ontario and Michigan the big debate is over the Lokiboden lines. Lokiboden Sibes are so fast that they give the Open Class dogs a run for their money! People theorize that they must be outcrossed but nothing has ever been proven with facts and the kennel is rather hush about their practices to the point of not releasing/selling any dogs under a year of age.

That's quite ironic really. The people most active in the banning of the Zeros in the UK had mostly Lokiboden lines at the time.

Mick

[husky princess]

That's quite ironic really. The people most active in the banning of the Zeros in the UK had mostly Lokiboden lines at the time.:D:D

Mick

[ocspirit]

That's quite ironic really. The people most active in the banning of the Zeros in the UK had mostly Lokiboden lines at the time.

Mick

Really?????? Susan and Leigh's main mentor was the owner of the Zero kennels....their lines are quite influenced by Zero dogs back when they first started out.....Irony indeed!!!! Funny what people will ignore only cause its back far enough in the pedigree that its not on the KC paper anymore, eh? hahaha

[Snopeak]

Hi Mick, getting by thanks, yourself?

@Sarah - I handled a friend's dog at a show once, he was a big boy and I have never moved a dog so quickly in a ring, without it running, and would certainly not describe his coat as thin!!!

@ZihnaBaby - this will take a bit of reasearch, something like investigating a family tree, one site which may be a use to you could be pawvillage.com, you might be lucky enough to enter 5th generation dogs from your pedigrees and follow them back.

@sid_wolf - who said "BSHRA believe that they are not purebred, or at least not as 'pure' as sibes of other lines". I think you will find that BSHRA is run by a group of rally organisers, not one person.

@Jennet Embry and Zoey - Sepp-Alta is Doug Willett kennel - http://douwil7.100webspace.net/index.html

@Sarah Nukka and Shadow - I have seen dogs of various lines taken to the start line without bouncing about like idiots, some people train their dogs to be calm going to the start line, most folks do not put in the training and acceot the

wasting of energy.

@davidjk - I do not find walking dogs to be energetic enough for our breed, one reason I took up working the dogs

Please do not take any of the above a personal digs, I am just using them as references for my responses.

WRT DNA testing, is there enough genetic diversity in the aleged breeding to prove anything either way.

And finally....yes there has been public slating of Zero's, however I think you will find that there have been questions raised on ALL lines, as at sometime a particular line predominant in someone's team will have beaten an owner of another team with an axe to grind, I have heard a few about Sepps over the years!!!