Darc-Brittany Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Interesting read. My guy is up to date but here they have a program, a staggered 3 year program. Get one booster a year and then that booster is good for three years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsgunner Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I have yet to post on these boards, however, being an almost-graduated vet student I feel this is something I should really add to (plus my dog is only half husky, so I don't feel warranted to post much ) It depends on the nature of the vaccine as to how long the immunity lasts. Leptospirosis immunity is short lived (just over a year) due to the inactivated nature of the vaccine, whereas things like Parvo and Canine Distemper are supposed to last 3+ years as they're attenuated live viruses. In New Zealand, Lepto is licensed for 1 year, Parvo, Distemper, Hepatitis etc. are licensed for 3 years, and Kennel Cough is licensed for approximately a year (although kennels usually require you to do them within 8 months of boarding). Personally, based off my knowledge of immunology, I would imagine the 3 year vaccines would actually last the lifetime of a dog anyway. I'd still be a bit skeptical about leaving the Lepto for more than a few years, but as the prevalence of Lepto is so incredibly low (in NZ anyway), you can usually get away with it. Immunity does wane over time with some diseases, especially against a bacterial disease such as Lepto. Admittedly some dogs develop crap immunity in the first place; but in every population you always have outliers, and unfortunately it's damn near impossible to make a 100% efficacious vaccine. Some dogs do just get these disease and then cope with them, however they may remain as lifelong viral or bacterial shedders which opens up a nidus of infection for young pups that come into contact with these dogs. I can understand why people say they don't want yearly boosters; but it's easy enough to say when you haven't seen the horrific results of some of these diseases. I've seen a few cases of some of these diseases, and that's more than enough reason for me to vaccinate my dog according to the current recommended schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookiemonster Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Thanks for the input Mitch, good to see some facts being used as opposed to just opinions. I agree about the lepto being one to consider, but the vaccine against it doesnt prevent your dog from fghting off the disease fully, only lessening its severity thus improving the timescale in which to get anti biotics into their system. Its also one that even vets dont always recommend having unless there is a high incidence rate in your area so if according to the vaccine manufacturers vaccines for parvo, hepatitis and distemper are meant to be administered every 3 years then surely that shows that lepto is considered low risk even to them? Im sure seeing these diseases is horrific, but in the same way we arent talking about cancer in humans, its no where near as prolific as that, you can argue that vaccines are the reason behind this but if you look back in history these diseases where still not as common back then. Research wont be done whilst pharmacutical companies are making millions of pounds a year, its in their interest and vets interest for annual boosters to be a requirement! Ill ask you one question Mitch as you have just stated, you believe the three year vaccines to last the lifetime of the dog, you have learnt that from your vetinary course.... so will you advise your clients pets to continue with annual boosters? Will you advise them to come in every three years instead? Im guessing not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Will you advise them to come in every three years instead? Im guessing not. Of course he's not going to for the other reasons such as kennels and groomers will not take a dog that isnt vaccinated annually. Why would people want an injection that would then be useless to them when it comes to kennels and stuff because of a bit of advice that someone gave them? It is the UKs guidelines that dogs should be vaccinated annually. Like I said in my post before unless there is an actual movement in vaccinations within the whole countries system, I am not prepared to take advice about these lifelong immunities seeing as - 1. If it was such a huge fact charities wouldn't be wasting money on it. The RSPCA already make huge payments out, why on earth would they keep paying to vaccinate dogs if it is so unnecessary and if it's because it's what the public want to hear - then why don't they change the guidlines in the UK to show these "Facts" as a truth, 2. It would totally screw up my chances of getting Aleu into kennels if I ever went on holiday without her or something. 3. It would screw up a lot of her chances of being allowed to go to group sessions with other dogs. And as for facts, I could have given you ones on distemper, hepititus, Lepto and Parvo but didn't think you wanted to go that deep into it. Lepto and Parvo is done annually as mentioned above because they need regular top ups against them. Distemper and Hepititus are given every other year with Lapto and Parvo in the UK. I'm not sure what you were trying to say when you were saying they arent as prolific, but if you meant in the sense of not being so horrible as cancer I think you really havent seen a dog suffering with these as it truely is horrific. Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Oh I wish I could find that Dog magazine! I only bought it cos Nix was in it, but the article questioning the basis of boosters was in that same edition... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Oh I wish I could find that Dog magazine! I only bought it cos Nix was in it, but the article questioning the basis of boosters was in that same edition... What magazine was it? Just wondering if it would be online. Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Right if anyone has the December edition of Dogs Monthly it's the article concerning: Vaccinations Veterinary opinion exposed! I can't for the life of me understand where my copy has gone, it's really bugging me now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I don't vaccinate yearly. I still think vaccinating is important but there is absolutely NO scientific evidence that PROVES yearly vaccinations are neccessary. There is however research proves it's not necessary and can be harmful. The Australia Veterinary Association changed their recommended vaccination protocol from yearly to three yearly a year or two ago - if the governing veterinary association for our entire country doesn't believe it's necessary WTF are vets still vaccinating yearly?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I'll still vaccinate my dog. If the vaccinations were not necessary, why do the humane societies make sure all of the dogs are up to date on their shots before they come in and before they leave? Its obviously not about the money grab for vets, because humane societies run on donations and (little) government funding. That's a great question and the main answer is lack of information and understanding about canine immunity. We are seeing changes here though as the information becomes more widely acceptable, boarding kennels, training clubs etc are accepting titre testing as proof of immunity instead of proof of yearly vaccinations. Titre testing is a great alternative to proves your dog has immunity. Given the fact that every dog I've seen die from one of the diseases that can be prevented through vaccine did not have regular boosters gives me more reason to go with experience over the supposable "facts". In all the time I worked at the vets I never saw a dog die or have a bad reaction to having a booster done, but I saw at least 5 that died that had only had their first vaccinations done and the owners never continued with their boosters. I personally am going to go with vaccinating my girl. It's important to note that no one is saying don't vaccinate at all. Dr Jean Dodds recommended vaccination protocol recommends giving vaccs between 8-10 weeks; 14 weeks and then an optional vacc at 16-18 weeks. AND then one year later an annual booster then titre testing after to ensure immunity. Details here: http://www.weim.net/...ms/Vaccine.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasKai Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Of course he's not going to for the other reasons such as kennels and groomers will not take a dog that isnt vaccinated annually. Why would people want an injection that would then be useless to them when it comes to kennels and stuff because of a bit of advice that someone gave them? It is the UKs guidelines that dogs should be vaccinated annually. The packaging that the vets open and wont let you see clearly states that the 3 core main vaccs should be given triannually only. But because there is big money for the pharmecutical companies, vets and even the governments this will rarely be achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 The packaging that the vets open and wont let you see clearly states that the 3 core main vaccs should be given triannually only. But because there is big money for the pharmecutical companies, vets and even the governments this will rarely be achieved. Yes Nobivac Vaccines state on the packaging that they can be used every 3 years now, but as stated above the UK guidlines is that we vaccinate our dogs annually and no matter what you do, kennels and things arent' going to take your dog if they arent vaccinated annually. Thanks for the link Bec, I'll have a look. Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasKai Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Yes Nobivac Vaccines state on the packaging that they can be used every 3 years now, but as stated above the UK guidlines is that we vaccinate our dogs annually and no matter what you do, kennels and things arent' going to take your dog if they arent vaccinated annually. Stacey xxx There are actually some kennels now that will take dogs and cats with triannual vaccs. I follow the guidelines of Dr Jean Dodds and Dr Ron Shultz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Stacey if the UK guidelines still recommend yearly vaccination it's very sad they are so many YEARS behind other the research and other western countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 There are actually some kennels now that will take dogs and cats with triannual vaccs. The Triannual thing has only just started taking off to be honest. The Nobivac Vaccines stated when I was there which was only 3 years ago, that Lepto And Parvo are to be given yearly and that distemper, hepititus should be given every other year. Maybe now that Nobivac are changing their length of vaccines and kennels are taking it on board, Hopefully we can start reducing the amount of vaccines that we require our dogs to have. And perhaps you're right Bec. To be honest I think the UK has been in a slump of routine about it and haven't done enough to consider changing it. I also think that practices probably can't be arsed to change their guidelines either as they would have to inform all their clients and alter their computer systems for each vaccine (which one some of the veterinary programs is a right pain in the arse to do because they go through a certain formula to give out the booster reminders, Our system we had DV1 (dog vaccine one) DV2 (dog vaccine 2) DV3 (for pups that has already had a short course done) LPB (Lepto Parvo Booster) DHLPB (Distemper Heptitius Lepto Parvo Booster) and then you'd got all the ones to add rabies and kennel cough into the equation. Why couldn't that have made vet systems easier ='D; but yeah, on the systems we had they had to be used in a certain order else you would screw up the booster reminders lol). Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasKai Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I have had vets admit to me that lepto and parvo vaccs dont work and can actually give them the diseases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Stacey some more info for you: http://www.dogsadversereactions.com/ChangingVaccineProtocols.html http://www.news.wisc.edu/releases/8413.html http://www.critterchat.net/immune.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Im interested in why this titer thing hasn't really taken off in the UK. We were never asked about titer testing nor do I think we actually ever performed one :\ Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasKai Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 All 14 of mine have been titre tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I found the magazine!!!!! It was under the sofa..... The article was written by a vet called Mark Elliott. BVSc VetMFHoms MRCVS RSHom (Just in case there is another vet of the same name if you google him) Basically he says that he and lot of other vets are questioning the practice of yearly boosters. and that there should be longer gaps in the boosters should they need it in their environment or a serological test instead of a vaccine. He also argues about teh need to restart the whole booster programme if it has lasped. All in all he's calling for system like Oz vets have implemented. Afterall shouldn't boosters be used for just that? Just to give an extra immunity should it be proved that the pets immunity is less than acceptable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Im actually considering ringing the practice I worked at to see if they are doing them now. Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I think next time we go past the vets we'll ask them about this sort of testing too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Good idea Elmo, I might call the 3 practices around me actually and see what they come back with and let you guys know. Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tan J P Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 i'm finding this all very interesting and confusing at the same time Tia is booked in next week for her yearly booster and i know its nobivac....mmm food for thought! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 i'm finding this all very interesting and confusing at the same time Tia is booked in next week for her yearly booster and i know its nobivac....mmm food for thought! Personally, if she hasn't had any problems before, I would just stick to taking her for her booster as you would. Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Tao&Sky Posted April 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 It looks like I have opened a can of worms here. Food for thought and no silly arguments. Please carry on debating as it is getting very interesting. :happy: ...Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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