Tan J P Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 i guess it hurt!! might be good for a party game!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 i guess it hurt!! might be good for a party game!! Dont know what kind of parties you go to lmao! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tan J P Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Dont know what kind of parties you go to lmao! do you want an invite!!?? if you thought waxing was painful,maybe not:lolman: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Na dont think i would enjoy that.... I know what it feels like to be electrocuted already lmao!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Angel n Auroras Mum Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 that video proves they are inhumane and shouldnt be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurchybold Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 I really wouldn't want it done to me, so Boone's safe, cos I wouldn't ask anything of him that I would refuse myself, Andy & Boone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 that video proves they are inhumane and shouldnt be used. I dont agree with the use of them, however wouldnt say that video is proof of anything other than the guy being an idiot LMAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Jones Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Won't even dream of using one on my babies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Bec - solely for kink, yeah sure. I would. Thats said, i dont need to drop a brick on my foot to know its wrong and that its going to hurt. Whats your point? My point is that e-collars are just like any other tool - how they are used (or abused) is up to the person using it. Remote training collars can have upwards of 120 levels of stim, and when it's used properly the dog works on the lowest perceivable level - it's to cue the dog and get their attention not cause pain. They work up to 800m away so undoubtedly are the most effective and subtle tool for getting a dog's attention at a large distance. I've put an e-collar on myself and I had to be stimmed to level 14 before I even felt the slightest vibration, and the dog the collar was being used on was working on a level lower than that. It's disappointing to see so many people in threads like this who jump on e-collars and the people who use them without having any experience with the way the tool is used properly. It's not remotely painful and I can attest to that myself. To give an example (this is not about training methods just showing how e-collars can be used and how a dog responds to the stim) 2YRmnqZUWXw Doesn't look like the dog is being abused to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyse Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 I've never used an e-collar so I have no experience, but I'm personally of the opinion: If you don't have the time to train your dog properly without the use of such tools and/or you can't afford to buy a fence...you shouldn't be owning a dog! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 I've never used an e-collar so I have no experience, but I'm personally of the opinion: If you don't have the time to train your dog properly without the use of such tools and/or you can't afford to buy a fence...you shouldn't be owning a dog! There are many reasons why people use e-collars, not just for containment. I could say the same thing about ANY tool - head collars, martingales, prongs etc. Flat collars and leashes are tools. I don't use a leash to train my dog so does that mean that anyone else who uses a leash doesn't have time to train their dog properly and therefore shouldn't have a dog? I don't understand the problem with people wanting training to be efficient, either. I don't want to plug away at a method for years and years. What's wrong with using a method that gets good results, quickly? Wouldn't that be a sign of a good training method not a bad one? Not talking about e-collars specifically here, but in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
<3Jess<3 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 IMO I'm not against if they are used in the right way...A small annoyance to get there attention not a large zap to correct I feel tho they should be illegal and not on the shelves so that they cannot be abused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiler Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 I think Bec has it spot on here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2016648/Mac--Electric-dog-collars.htm Sorry I couldn't download it. It's a Mac cartoon. Besides Vicars and the idiots who put these collars on their dogs who else would you put one of these collars on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2016648/Mac--Electric-dog-collars.htm Sorry I couldn't download it. It's a Mac cartoon. Besides Vicars and the idiots who put these collars on their dogs who else would you put one of these collars on? What other tool allows you to that subtley cue your dog from a distance of 400-800 meters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzlin Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 I have a Pac Ndxt which i use daily with Milo off lead i cant actually remember the last time i used it to correct him, however the moment i get it out he goes mental whooping bouncing around cos he knows hes off for a walk. Yes i too have tried the shock settings and it does nip a little. I am privaliged to have several very good areas to walk milo where you can walk for hours and meet no one at all. I have it as if he was to slip his collar or lead i have a back up, most of the time its not switched on or is flat. Sorry if people think less of me for having one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 i think what we need to remember - is that it doesnt matter wether we know how they work or not - they have been banned in wales - and this bloke used one to stop it roaming off his property instead of keeping the dog safe by getting a fence - as it cleary didnt work as the dog was found wearing it on the beach - dangerous imo - and he was fined because of the fact they are banned - not because he was abusing his dog - he might know how e-collars work - like bec and we wouldnt know - but they were still banned so he shouldnt have used it because of that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 There are training collars that squirt water at the dog and thereby distract the dog. I have seen this effectively used in my local park by a dog owner. She had it on a one week rent from the dog psychologist she was taking her dog to. This would also work at the distance you have quoted. Jess makes some good points above, a low watt shock properly prescribed by say a dog psychologist and as a final solution to a problem may be acceptable, if a water collar did not, however I feel it is better just to ban them to stop them being misused. I don't know about martingales in dogs only horses, but the use of them in horses is probably used completely different to that in dogs. I have also seen these misued by inexperienced riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed #1 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 i think what we need to remember - is that it doesnt matter wether we know how they work or not - they have been banned in wales - and this bloke used one to stop it roaming off his property instead of keeping the dog safe by getting a fence - as it cleary didnt work as the dog was found wearing it on the beach - dangerous imo - and he was fined because of the fact they are banned - not because he was abusing his dog - he might know how e-collars work - like bec and we wouldnt know - but they were still banned so he shouldnt have used it because of that From the article: "He used the collar to try to stop the collie jumping over a high wall surrounding his property, Bridgend magistrates heard." Soooo he had a fence/high wall in place. The dog was just mighty dog and vaulted it frequently. I personally am still curious as to why...if the dog had been picked by the dog warden before they kept returning the collar with the dog. I mean could you imagine if this were applied in such a way to people... "You've served your time...here's your meth back...don't use or anything..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 From the article: "He used the collar to try to stop the collie jumping over a high wall surrounding his property, Bridgend magistrates heard." Soooo he had a fence/high wall in place. The dog was just mighty dog and vaulted it frequently. I personally am still curious as to why...if the dog had been picked by the dog warden before they kept returning the collar with the dog. I mean could you imagine if this were applied in such a way to people... "You've served your time...here's your meth back...don't use or anything..." sorry tbh i didnt really read the article - but if the dog can still vault it n the collar is obviously not working then why not look at other methods such as a tie out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed #1 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 @BingBlaze'n'Skyla I really don't know why he didn't try a tie out...in all honesty there isn't enough information in the article to say what methods he's tried to date. In the end we can speculate all we like about whats been used, what should have or could have been done...but the guy has a rather hefty fine and I don't think he's likely to risk the 51 weeks in jail for repeating the offense. Is he going to keep the dog? Probably...is the dog going to keep vaulting the wall? Probably...and thats the sad bit. When you're basing legislation upon things like animal protection and welfare as a means of putting it in place, as one of the organizations who lobied for this law is quoted as doing....then you can't just toss your arms up in the air when there's an obvious problem (as in this instance dog frequently escaping the yard) and say well...at least the legislation is working. Because quite frankly its not. Again, the fine isn't going to do anything to aid the owner in keeping his dog safe, none of the animal advocacy groups that have stepped up and called this a triumph for animal welfare have offered or attempted to help the man in finding alternative ways of keeping his pet safe (so, fine...guy keeps dog, dog keeps escaping...dog gets hit by car or worse...yes this is a brilliant way to educate owners and keep pets safe right?)....and so really rather than being a law that does anything productive it ends up being yet another publicity centered incident where the guy will have his fifteen minutes of infamy, whomever gets that bit of money gets that bit of money annnnd then things are left with the same problems and...yeah...sorry like them, hate them the entire process surrounding this seems flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed #5 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Okay, my two cents worth. The fact that they're illegal in Wales should have been sufficient for most intelligent people there to not use them, the fact that the owner chose to ignore the law makes it his problem. My spaniel, who I've mentioned before, was my one attempt to use a shock collar. She kept chasing a neighbours chickens and it seemed as if no amount of intervention on my part was going to change that. She didn't kill them, just chased them - he wanted the eggs which they didn't lay ... Introduced Blondie to shock collar at it's lowest setting, let her out and of course she headed straight toward the chickens, pressed the button on the controller and you'd have thought I'd killed her. She headed straight under the neighbours house and stayed there. Not a good reaction, not what I wanted and I really don't like the idea of using pain as a deterrent. When I first got Misty, I looked at the collars again - next generation, more levels and sound aversion - to see if it would work to keep her home (this is the fenceless type, wire underground). After looking at the prongs and the hair on her neck, decided that this probably wasn't going to work and had that reinforced by several who had tried to use them on long haired dogs. I still have that collar and am considering using it on the two pups I have since they've decided that running with / chasing cars is a fun thing to do. Am I enthused about the idea, no; do I want one of them to get run over, no; which is the worse alternative .... ??? There is an interesting article on Wikipedia with studies referenced that cater to both sides of the argument. I think it that the studies go both ways - stating that it is the manner in which they are used that is the concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyse Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 There are training collars that squirt water at the dog and thereby distract the dog. I have seen this effectively used in my local park by a dog owner. She had it on a one week rent from the dog psychologist she was taking her dog to. This would also work at the distance you have quoted. Jess makes some good points above, a low watt shock properly prescribed by say a dog psychologist and as a final solution to a problem may be acceptable, if a water collar did not, however I feel it is better just to ban them to stop them being misused. I don't know about martingales in dogs only horses, but the use of them in horses is probably used completely different to that in dogs. I have also seen these misued by inexperienced riders. I have a martingale collar on Suka. As long as it is used PROPERLY, which I do use it properly, it causes no harm to their trachea area and there is no risk of strangling to death if left alone if the collar is on the correct tightness setting. And, anyway, any tool can be dangerous if used incorrectly. It's just that some tools are more dangerous than others in the first place; personally I'm just against the whole idea of shocking your dog to correct it. I realize it may not cause pain, just a sensation, but I've heard of too many dogs that were 'ruined' by the collars and are now living lives of fear of going outside. Might be their owners used the collars wrongly, I don't know, but I don't want it to happen to Suka. IMO, there are plenty other ways to train your dog effectively other than with a shock collar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivey Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 they played a video on the news of it being used a GSD that was chasing sheep.... they let the dog off lead in a field full of sheep and then when the dog run after the sheep they shocked it saying "ohh it dont hurt.... ect" but as soon as they shocked the dog it run off yelping in pain....... so i dont know how they can say it dont hurt :mad: :mad: :mad: is it not true that when an alfa in a pack corrects a pack member the dog being corrected whimpers? its a sign of submission not pain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 I can guarantee you all that if you saw an e-collar being used properly you would struggle to see the moment the dog was given the stim, because it's so low, the dog does not yelp or feel pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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