Staceybob Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Hello! So some of you like @Storm & Angels Mum will be aware that like more than 4,000 other people, I complained to the BBC about Jordan Shelley's dog training techniques that were displayed on the "One" show a few weeks ago. Jordan was described as the show's very own professional dog trainer, but they are since withdrawing this claim - mainly out of the fact that it has caused such uproar. So to those interested, this is the reply that I have replied from the BBC. I have highlighted some of the main parts. Dear Miss Ashford Thanks for contacting us regarding ‘The One Show’ on BBC One. We forwarded your concerns to the programme’s Executive Editor who has responded as follows: “Thanks for your complaint about Jordan Shelley. “Jordan was asked to visit a dog which had failed to respond to sessions with dog trainers using reward-based techniques. The owner said that one trainer had suggested the dog be put down and this was a real possibility. The owner of the dog was and remains extremely pleased with Jordan’s actions that day and on subsequent follow-up visits. “Jordan runs a small refuge for dogs, some of which have proved too much for their owners, where he uses a range of techniques depending on the problem and the breed of dog. It was not his or the programme’s intention to suggest this was a recommended technique for viewers to try. “Last week following the complaints the programme issued a specific warning about not attempting this at home and the following day in a follow-up film Jordan stressed nobody should attempt any such technique without consulting a professional. We also interviewed at some length The Dog’s Trust whose spokeswoman spelled out the dangers of the technique and why it should not be used. Following that film we acknowledged that we shouldn’t have described Jordan as the programme’s dog expert but merely as someone who we were following as he worked with difficult and abandoned dogs. In the studio a vet spelled out the differences between dominance techniques used by Jordan in the original film and softer, more reward-based techniques and the reasons why the latter are favoured by the dog training establishment. “We believe we have listened and responded to complaints responsibly and have stated that there are currently no plans to work with him again. “Yours sincerely Sandy Smith Executive Editor The One Show†We’d also like to assure you we've registered your complaint on our audience log. This is an internal report of audience feedback which we compile daily and is available for viewing by all our staff. This includes all programme makers and presenters, along with our senior management. It ensures that your points, along with all other comments we receive, are circulated and considered across the BBC. Thanks again for taking the time to contact us. www.bbc.co.uk/complaints NB This is sent from an outgoing account only which is not monitored. You cannot reply to this email address but if necessary please contact us via our webform quoting any case number we provided. Kind Regards BBC Audience Services This was some coverage "The One" show did as they have now decided to cancel him off the show: J1AE6uTo3Ok Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marley & Lumikkis Mummy Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 What did he do that was so bad, I dont watch the programme ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 What did he do that was so bad, I dont watch the programme ? 80-jZJ4iSEE If that's dog training, then I'm a monkey. Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taiya Blue and Miko too Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 What did he do that was so bad, I dont watch the programme ? Watch at about 2mins Suzanne I think Jordan bit off a bit more than he could chew when he agreed to being on the show didn't he! What a numpty! Is it a case of I was a vetinary assistant so know I now how to train dogs? Do like a bit of Joe Inglis though LOL! (and the dogs love his kibble too!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Watch at about 2mins Suzanne I think Jordan bit off a bit more than he could chew when he agreed to being on the show didn't he! What a numpty! Is it a case of I was a vetinary assistant so know I now how to train dogs? Do like a bit of Joe Inglis though LOL! (and the dogs love his kibble too!) Definately. I believe that he is a wanna be Cesar Millan. He even stated on the show that Cesar is his idol. I've recently discovered Zak George and have spoken to him on facebook, I think he is a really good trainer. Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 never watched the link (cant watch that 1 atm till later) however i know how much uproar he caused n im glad they decided to listen to their audience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 never watched the link (cant watch that 1 atm till later) however i know how much uproar he caused n im glad they decided to listen to their audience! Yes I'm glad they did. The cancellation came after someone set up a petition on facebook and they got loads of signatures. Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Angel n Auroras Mum Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 well it wont make the show much better but at least we wont have people trying the neanderthal techniques! 80-jZJ4iSEE If that's dog training, then I'm a monkey. Stacey xxx oooohhhhh ooooohhhhh aaaaahhh aaaahh (monkey noise) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 well it wont make the show much better but at least we wont have people trying the neanderthal techniques! oooohhhhh ooooohhhhh aaaaahhh aaaahh (monkey noise) Lol !! :monkeydance: Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laine Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 They do make a good point; anyone can set themselves up as a trainer. There is no real overseeing organization/body, nor are there any real courses on how to become a trainer (least here anyway, and I've looked as I'd love to become a trainer but closest thing I can find is behaviorist which isn't the same really, but something I'm debating taking anyway). That said, there ARE ways to become a trainer and do so properly. Apprentice with a trainer who believes as you do - myself, I plan to talk to and get involved with a lady who uses Susan Garrett's methods (it's a "Do Land" approach where the point is to be happy with your dog and your dog to be happy) and has gone to her camps that lives about 40 minutes away - learn what you can, do courses or online conference stuff, join up in followings (in my case, Puppy Peaks through Susan's Say Yes program and the Recallers program if it's ever offered up again), get books by good trainers (Shaping Success, Ruff Love in my case), get DVD's (Crate Games, but I also have Michael Ellis' DVD's of training with markers, food and playing tug with your dog) and anything else you can think of. The information's out there, it's just a matter of working hard to find it. /offrant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 They do make a good point; anyone can set themselves up as a trainer. There is no real overseeing organization/body, nor are there any real courses on how to become a trainer (least here anyway, and I've looked as I'd love to become a trainer but closest thing I can find is behaviorist which isn't the same really, but something I'm debating taking anyway). This is why the KCAI now exists. They want people to have to take oral and physical exams to prove that they can do what they are saying they can do and you sign to only use positive based methods. I have a card now with the KCAI which I legally have to display that states I am a student dog trainer. Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvinandmommy Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 He is definitely a Cesar Milan wannabe. Some of the stuff that Milan does I think is great....like the facility he has in California for abandoned dogs where they live in kind of a pack. But some of his training techniques I dont agree with. I noticed on the video with this Jordan guy that he kept shoving his foot in the dogs face.....with Calvin and even my parents dog if you shove anything in their face like a shoe then they attack it. Little side note.....I dont like very many ankle biter dogs.....I probably would have punted the little beast across the room if it acted that way in my house. Course I never would have let the dog get such an attitude in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 He is definitely a Cesar Milan wannabe. Some of the stuff that Milan does I think is great....like the facility he has in California for abandoned dogs where they live in kind of a pack. But some of his training techniques I dont agree with. I noticed on the video with this Jordan guy that he kept shoving his foot in the dogs face.....with Calvin and even my parents dog if you shove anything in their face like a shoe then they attack it. Little side note.....I dont like very many ankle biter dogs.....I probably would have punted the little beast across the room if it acted that way in my house. Course I never would have let the dog get such an attitude in the first place. I think the biggest point of shock for me was when he started to get the children to use their feet. That's when I really said, right I'm reporting this. It's one thing being an adult and making that decision for yourself, but teaching young people to do that, is just down right ridiculous. Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laine Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 This is why the KCAI now exists. They want people to have to take oral and physical exams to prove that they can do what they are saying they can do and you sign to only use positive based methods. I have a card now with the KCAI which I legally have to display that states I am a student dog trainer. Stacey xxx I wish we had that; as far as I know there's nothing like that here. Yet; hopefully there'll be something set up (besides the APDT which some people are having issues with lately from what I've read). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 If they keep stresing that people SHOULD NOT use this technique at home. . . . then WHY bother to show it in the first place. Why bother showing something that they are promoting as an effective and worthwhile training tool, then tell you not to use it. . . and THEN to get over 4000 complaints that the technique is seriously flawed. . . just dumb, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 If they keep stresing that people SHOULD NOT use this technique at home. . . . then WHY bother to show it in the first place. Why bother showing something that they are promoting as an effective and worthwhile training tool, then tell you not to use it. . . and THEN to get over 4000 complaints that the technique is seriously flawed. . . just dumb, really. The best bit is, the first time they showed him working with the jack russell, they didnt provide a warning. What a fantastic thing to display publicly and display children risking it too! Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 just watched the vid there wasnt even any consistancy in commands n any1 can shout at a dog n tell it to get out of a room! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 just watched the vid there wasnt even any consistancy in commands n any1 can shout at a dog n tell it to get out of a room! Exactly, like with the food he says "Now I'm going to tell him to leave it" And then approaches him with his feet and tells him to "move it" ! Because the dog knows what that command means ??!? I'm so glad he's off. Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 They do make a good point; anyone can set themselves up as a trainer. There is no real overseeing organization/body, nor are there any real courses on how to become a trainer Dog training is no different than horse training - anyone can do it and claim to do it - there are a thousand "certified" courses out there, and everyone is convinced that their way is right and anything else is wrong. In the end, we kinda gotta go with what works. Watching that video, I think the biggest concern is not what he's doing, but that he's being touted as a professional. It's the inconsistencies in the voice commands that hinders him the most - for example at 3:35 when he tells the dog to leave and it just turns away - there's no follow-through or reinforcement of the command he supposedly established with the food. I'm not sure what the was doing at 2:00-ish when he pushed his foot in the dog's face at a distance - again no follow-through to whatever it is he wanted there. He has a lot of the "right" ideas (I say because I agree with this kind of training), and I don't think there's any doubt that he got results, and I'm sure they will be lasting results if the family remains consistent. As for the warning, I'm actually kind of tired of the whole notion of "protecting people from their own stupidity." The warning doesn't matter at all. Take a show like Dog Whisperer (or hell, even Jackass!). There is always a warning not to try this at home and to call a professional, especially when he's working in a dangerous situation. How many people do you honestly think watch the show and say "look how well that worked! I'm going to go try it with my - oh, wait - nope, it says don't try this at home. I'd better not?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Melsom Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Well he didnt do anything ...dog trainer...ish..I didnt find it terrible but I dont see how a person could have a show when he dosent seem like hes doing much. Im glad they listened to their fans tho. I cant stand ceasar milan so I won't go there but there is a dog trainer who I think is AMAZING whos training does not include treats. I definitly wouldnt classify that guy in the video as a trainer tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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