Erwan Leone Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Hello all. Erwan and Kayla here. Kayla is my new 8 week old pup who can be a bit trying... but what pup isn't. I'm going to go about researching puppy training but right off the bat here are some things (rules really) I abide by. I just want to make sure I still make sense with you as sounding board. Okay? I listen to her -If she's needing to pee and tells me in the middle of the night with some yelping.. I get up. -I do not however, if she's pee-ed poo-ed and it's not chow time, reward her yelping with attention. If she's wanting to be listened to a little too much, we cover her cage until 2mins of silence is achieved wherein we remove cover for sight purposes. If 2 more mins can be achieved she then may get a good girl reward but most of the time this leads to more whining and the like. -She is being crate trained. -This does include being in crate at foot of bed to see her master before bed. -She can also be put outside with cover on as further 'treatment' -Unfortunately until house broken she's primarily outside on our deck with free reign but not inside yet. Potty training is rough but I change her bedding ASAP and wipe down with that nature's remedy stuff. -This happens still regularly but often she makes it outside, I will continue listening and grabbing her to go outside. I try to walk/run/train with her on/off leash regularly -Most of the time this is at the crack of dawn, which I do not mind (unless I drank too much, lol) -I'm beginning to heal her on leash -I only train sit and come on leash -She gets quick corrections and a "no" for the following: On heal; straying too far from position, leading or pulling too hard, crossing in front. Also if she is too nippy with my daughter or causes her to fall I'll roll her (only if I can do it immediately) over quickly with a "no". Unfortunately I cannot limit the interaction between my daughter and the dog until my daughter or Kayla are further trained so usually Kayla ends up being too rough. This makes me sound like an A-hole but I don't see any other way as she (K) does it so often. She also gets jealous when I'm interacting with my daughter and this disciplining can help her learn my priorities. -As a family she has been trained to us calling her and getting bites of her food as reward upon successful come. -Sit on leash is very trying and I feel only then (on leash) can she complete the task. Good girls are her reward which might not be enough. (more on this soon of course) -If while on leash she dominates me through tugging or staying still I try my best to keep her on my heel and be patient. Recently I've let her have 30-50 seconds to sniff at something then I give her 2 in cheek clicks and a tug, repeat and then its tug tug tug till she joins. I feed her often but to prescribed portion -I'm using the Wellness brand Ocean flavor which she may get for the rest of her life. -She also gets raw cow knuckles which she has now started to love -She eats at 0800, 12ish, and 5pm. Only snacking in between on training time with one bit per task. We love her -As much as it may sound like I'm a meanie we also shower her with positive re-enforcement: when she's quiet, when she comes when called, when she pees/poos outside, when she runs alongside off leash, when she licks instead of bites, when she sits calmly, when she picks up/chases something thrown, when she sits quietly waiting for us to let her in. And many many more I can't think of. Well. I guess I'm nuts cuz that's a lot. I've been thinking and researching having a dog for what seems all of my life and I really want her to be the best damn dog she can be. I guess I'm just very lucky and blessed to have a run in with a Husky. Mind you, she will mush one day too as we live in Flagstaff by the Canyon and she'll have her opportunities to have fun in the sun and in the SNOW. Hooray for her. I hope this finds all of you and your dogs well and look forward to reading a lot soon. Please remember I'm new to this, and only trying my best. I will of course do best with constructive criticism. Not being sensitive but I really truly believe in not Humanizing the dog, right? Talk soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyse Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Welcome to H-O! My advice: I think running/walking the dog at that young age will make them get arthritis at a younger age than they normally would. Not everything that she is doing sounds like it is dominance related - as she is only 8 weeks old, she doesn't have a desire to be dominant over anybody and will happily follow her daddy. Like the nipping your daughter - your puppy is only trying to play and it doesn't sound dominance related because they are still so young and just want to PLAY! I, personally, disagree with the 'Alpha roll' as I find it forces the dog to be submissive, which makes them not respect you. Although, bite/nip inhibition is important so good for you for trying to nip it (no pun intended!) in the butt early! Or the pulling/tugging on the leash. Again, that doesn't sound like dominance. She's a husky, so her instinct is to PULL! Also, being still a puppy, she's excited about everything and just wants to GO! How many cups are you feeding her each time when you feed her? One rule of H-O, though. WE WANT PICTURES of your beautiful girl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwan Leone Posted October 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Well There's that so there! Appreciate the immediate feedback. I knew nipping the nipping was alright. I guess I'm very interested in your anti-Alpha outlook. How does equality in the 'pack' work. Isn't omega respectful? I'd love to hear where you pull this belief from, please do indulge me if you have time. Food is being minded as per the bag (or web site actually). They say because it's so protein rich and has no grain fillers, dogs need less. She gets a cup and a quarter. 1/2 cup for breakfast lunch and 1/4 for dinner. I usually leave a bone in her crate. Are there any games she can play that I'm not already doing? I let her play with one squeaky skunk think that has rubber inside and then of course coming to each of us for treats is a bit of play. I'm just so afraid of playing wrong. Like wrestling with hands and not shoes (even though she would prefer our feet) is a choice I thought might bite me later (literally). I considered tug of war but again I thought this bad for same reasons. Thx again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutsibe Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Hi and - she's adorable! You may be expecting a little too much too soon - at 8 weeks, she's still a baby, and as a Siberian, is bred to pull, so heeling doesn't come naturally. Not that they CAN’T learn to heel, but that it’s natural for this breed to be out front. You might want to teach her to heel on command, and at other times, allow her to walk out front as long as she doesn’t pull too hard. Siberians generally are NOT good off-lead! They were bred to run long distances, and are very curious. They love to see what’s over the horizon. As a puppy, they have a desire to stay near their “packâ€Â, but as they enter the teenage stage, this often changes, despite best attempts at training! Keep in mind that many Siberians are very predatory, and there are a variety of critters in your area that could cause her harm, including, but not limited to, porcupines, should she go after one while off leash. Don’t overdo the running, either, until she’s got her growth - their bones and joints are pretty soft until they’re around 18 months - 2 years of age. As to rolling a puppy on it’s back - I have done it (Mama-dog will pin a pup that’s being obnoxious and not taking “NO†for an answer, so I feel that there’s some basis for the action), but many on the forum do not like this technique. I have 11 Siberians (mostly related to each other) and I DO see dominance order in their relationships with each other. Those relationships do fluctuate, and are not set in stone, but... Housetraining - at 8 weeks, she has an itty-bitty tiny bladder, and has no control to speak of. She will need to go out to pee and poop at least every hour or two, perhaps a bit longer overnight, but likely within 4 hours even then. Having her go from 5pm until 8am might be a little bit long stretch of time, as well - young puppies need to eat more frequently, as they tend to burn up their reserves pretty quickly. You might want to give her a final, small meal closer to bed time - I don't think she's getting enough of her food later in the day - she might sleep better with a full stomach! I haven't ever had a problem playing tug with my puppies - I just make sure that it's an appropriate item. I wrestle, but always make sure that I'm gentle, and that I teach "gentle" to the puppy, and when things get too rough, I yelp, tell puppy "GENTLE!", and all play stops for the time. If she bites too hard, or you want the mouthing to stop completely, here are some tips... http://www.morrco.com/tebiin.html http://www.canismajor.com/dog/bite2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyse Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 [edited out pictures...] Well There's that so there! Appreciate the immediate feedback. I knew nipping the nipping was alright. I guess I'm very interested in your anti-Alpha outlook. How does equality in the 'pack' work. Isn't omega respectful? I'd love to hear where you pull this belief from, please do indulge me if you have time. Food is being minded as per the bag (or web site actually). They say because it's so protein rich and has no grain fillers, dogs need less. She gets a cup and a quarter. 1/2 cup for breakfast lunch and 1/4 for dinner. I usually leave a bone in her crate. Are there any games she can play that I'm not already doing? I let her play with one squeaky skunk think that has rubber inside and then of course coming to each of us for treats is a bit of play. I'm just so afraid of playing wrong. Like wrestling with hands and not shoes (even though she would prefer our feet) is a choice I thought might bite me later (literally). I considered tug of war but again I thought this bad for same reasons. Thx again. She's a very beautiful girl! I believe in the NILF method (Nothing in Life is Free), rather than the 'everything they try to do is for dominance' theory. Obviously dogs have a pecking order in packs (a dog park pack or your family 'pack'!) but I don't believe everything 'naughty' they do is to be dominant over you. You seem to be referring to the way wolf pack dynamics works - there are similarities, but dog 'packs' work different than wolf packs. They are much more 'loose' than wolf packs - as they don't have to stick together for survival - and thus the 'pecking order' isn't as well defined. In addition, the ranks like Alpha, Beta, etc really only exist in captive wolf packs where they can't disperse to get away from each other...and typically wolves in captivity aren't related, as well. Because they aren't related, fights for dominance usually break out...and the fights can range from little ones, to ones that cause one or the other to die. In wild wolf packs, the pack structure works quite differently. The pack is made up of family members - so you have your mother and father (The 'Alphas'), maybe 1 or 2 wolves from the last year's previous litter, and the current year's litter. The offspring of the parents are naturally submissive to their parents and don't try to dominate over them - doing so would result in incest during the next breeding season! The ones that feel a need to dominate would simply disperse (leave) from the pack, and find a mate of their own. Typically, wolves aren't accepted into other packs unless the 'Alpha' male/female are in need of a new mate (their other mate died) The above wolf-y stuff is what I read from David Mech's numerous wolf research books I read. It's all paraphrased, mind you, and I don't take credit for his work. In dog packs, like I've seen at the dog park, dogs don't typically stick together like a wolf pack would. I see it all the time at the park - Suka, my boy, is dominant over other dogs. He 'tells' other dogs that he wants to be 'in charge' through his body language - usually they listen and no fights break out because they are naturally more submissive than Suka is. But, after that, the dogs usually go their separate ways. They don't usually stick together as a pack and go from one dog park pack to another with no problems. I've tried to do the Alpha roll on Suka, my boy, before. It hasn't worked out very well - and I'm afraid he'll bite. It might just be because of his more dominant 'personality', but I personally don't think the Alpha roll does anything but induce fear into your dog and force them to be submissive to you. The dog may fear you, but fear is different than respect... Tug of war is okay, as long as you don't let her win all the time or lose all the time. Switch it up! Remember, she is still a puppy and not everything is about dominance as she is still so young...and its not fun playing a game where you lose all the time, right? For another toy, you can try getting her a Kong. It'll keep her entertained for hours and you can stuff some of her dinner in there so you don't feed her extra (a lot of food for a puppy = diarrhea, usually) I've personally never had a puppy before (adopted Suka from the humane society), so I can't give you any tips on housebreaking or whatnot. But Gigi (sutsibe) offered some good advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 i dont belive having her outside most of the time will help with her house breaking as she wont be used to being inside when she is allowed inside she might then start marking this 'new' area welcome to the pack tho shes a cutie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roper1982 Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 When we first got Maya at 8 weeks old, we started the crate training straight away, but dont use the crate as a punishment as this is to be their "safe haven" bu as for potty training over night... for the first cple weeks we were waking up every 3 hours to take her out back for her to go potty and slowly over time increased this time period until we could let her out at midnight and then she would be fine until 8am, and it was at this point we got our second puppy, Togo and we began it all again (just when i thought i would get more than 3 hours sleep at a time) but over time once again Togo can now last throughout the night and they both go out at around midnight-ish and then are fine until the morning, around 8am... As already been said, Huskies love to be out front when on their lead but then again i cannot really offer dvice at what they are like on leash at 8 weeks old as i have alot of other dogs in this area and nver took them out properly until she had received her injections and the vet said it was afe for her to be around other dogs etc at which point they love to pull but are now slowly learning that they are allowed to pul when on the harness but not allowed when walking on a collar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutsibe Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 A dog pack, I think, is a little more similar to a wolf pack when it's a group of dogs that live together, and are related - my pack has several sub-packs, as I have a few that tend to argue, so I let them out in different groups... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwan Leone Posted October 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Well I guess I'm learning still. I think we'll try the "OW' approach to biting like the links in your post sutsibe. Thank you for that. It makes a lot of sense as I did get her at 6 weeks due to a passing mother. The other thing I'm having issue with is outdoor indoor time. She enjoys sitting outside and playing/walking with us outside and will almost never crate up quietly unless really dog tired. If she's still playing or being far too noisy for too long,is it okay to let her out or is she just training me. As soon as we put her out she's quiet for a while and if I see her sitting and looking at the door I'll open it and attempt to re-crate her. How off am I? Thank you for all your time. I'll be looking into a harness as well soon, I didn't realize the collar might not be so effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyse Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 You're putting her outside when she's making noise? She might associate being outside as punishment, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwan Leone Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Well it's weird really. She enjoys going out and since a few days now I've just been letting her out when she gets too noisy and then she chills out and plays by herself. Really it's confusing for me too. She doesn't associate outside with a punishment, I think, she's seeing it as me letting her out to play. Will the noisy 'non-crate' behavior continue because of this, as she's training me, I dunno? Other pertinent facts is that she does curl up and sleep outside. It is a deck area, separate from the great out doors but allowing her to observe wildlife and weather with her senses. She has a small dog house area where I feed her and water her. Only when left for more than a few hours will she sleep in this dog house though. Her crate itself is always inside and sometimes in the car. She gets moved nightly from downstairs to up stairs for her nightly sleep. So again, maybe I'm wrong, but we seem to be getting most of the right responses here. Changing her environment when she's hyper howling without making a fuss or giving her anymore attention than required seems to work alright. She quiets down and enjoys her time outside. As soon as she's back in though she turns into whiny Kayla. Really I think she just wants to play with us, which I do but sometimes she can be a bit relentless send the crate sometimes gets her to calm otherwise she can go outside and play till she's calmed down. Am I confusing the crap out of her, or you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyse Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I'm not sure, LOL, I've never trained a puppy before. I think it would be helpful if you'd post a new thread on this (and other) problems you're having with her in another section (instead of "introductions"). That way, you'll get a more varied response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranormal Wolf Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Hello and welcome to the forum with your little cutie. There's been some great advice so far so I can't really add anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwan Leone Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Got it, Thank you, will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arooroomom Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Pardon me if I read incorrectly From what it seems... she is crated nearly all the time she's inside? The only time she's not in the crate is when she's outside? That could be your problem right there! I know my dogs would rather be running free with no need to worry about holding their bowls or running too much than stuck inside the crate. While my dogs like their crates- they certainly love to play and run and lounge around with me too I understand you want her housebroken, but I would begin giving her more time in the house uncrated and just keep an eye on her. I know it's hard, and accidents will happen. But there's no 'perfection' in raising a puppy. Relax! Not everything is dominance related. That term as a whole annoys me. When she's crying to be let out it's not her trying to "dominate" you... She's bored! She'd rather be out doing silly puppy things! So she's going to cry for you to give in. She's not dominating you, she's manipulating you. If there's anything this breed is good at... it's manipulation! lol Don't read so much into the whole dominance thing. It really doesn't play such a huge role in every movement your dog makes as some make it out to be. There is nothing wrong with tug of war, this is another one of those dominance theory myths. It's not an issue. Enjoy the game, let her win, you win, let her win again, be excited and watch and enjoy her being excited for winning! I end every exercise or activity with a cookie. When i'm done playing tug I ask for a sit and give them a cookie. And that's that. I ended up with the toy but they don't care because they're too busy munching on their cookie. I always recommend ending the game before they grow bored. You want them to be excited the next time you play. Another fun game to play is hide and seek or "find it." Anytime that you spend with your dog doing activities it continues to solidify the bond between you 2 and a mutual respect is built. I'd rather have a dog who respects me than a dog who fears me. A lot of the techniques of the dominance theory create dogs who don't want to connect with you or who are fearful of you. That's not what I want my dogs life to be about I want their interactions with me to be as positive and rewarding as possible. Not saying you shouldn't correct a dog for inappropriate behavior, but I want them to know that positive behavior is rewarded VERY positively and very fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charley Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Hi, welcome to the forum, she is absolutely gorgeous! The biggest tip I can give you is just to have patience with her as she is only 8 weeks old, she's still only working out what things are, she'll get there eventually The most important thing is to set boundaries/rules and stick to them so your dog learns what it right and what isn't, which you have already done. My only criticism is that it sounds like the whole time she's inside she's in her crate which can't be very fun for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwan Leone Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 So just an update: She's now more of an outdoor deck dog. She is allowed to come inside and we play but only under close supervision (already a few accidents) and to train or play. I've installed a doggy door which I hope she'll go out on her own to do her numbers on the deck. It seems unlikely to expect her to go down the stairs on her own to do this just yet. She does go up though very easily if there's incentive. Her crate time is usually only at night and because it's all my family can allow right now, as we have a newborn and the yelping had to mitigated with outside time.... which works well as she's nearly always quiet out there. She plays very well and her nipping does occur but usually it can be avoided (not when tired, not when it's almost feed time, etc). I always end the indoor time on a good note and then lead her outside with something in mind to keep her occupied. I also have gotten her to stake outside on 40 foot successfully, but again she must have something interesting to do. So far all is well and she seems to be doing well. I just initiated walking her on a harness while her collar is for ID tag and stake out time only. Also, I've noticed she walks best on the left side, any input on that? She seems to sit on command and at appropriate times (ie before eating, before after walking, before play). The hardest thing for me as of yet is the resource guarding and not having trained the 'drop it' yet. Both are leading to weird situations around food. She finds things all the time on walks and almost had her way with a mushroom today! Yikes. And of course my not having hand fed her prior to letting her ravage her bowl was most likely a bad idea. I'm doing this now though for every meal and I find teaching bite inhibition here works well too. The reason being I can say ow if she isn't gentle enough and cease feeding her for a minute. I resume once she's sitting on command and usually she nibbles without biting me. Great stuff and loads of fun all around. Thanks for all the input even though I'm most likely in the wrong thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 Welcome to the forum. Some great advice above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Solomon Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 8 weeks old is still an infant ... she can't be potty trained any time soon and she just needs love. the only thing we did with our two girl pups then was teach them not to bite by holding their muzzle firmly when they did it to us and said a firm no....that worked very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarok Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 Put here in a box and send her me first class male shes lovely. Lucky you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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