Viggo got hurt- fight with Bear

[PnkFlyd204]

So I've been away from the forum for the past few days and I just noticed that a thread was posted about fighting. It made me want to post my story about what happened to Viggo on Saturday night.

Well first off, a little background. A little over 2 weeks ago, my boyfriend's American Bulldog/Jack Russel mix Bear came to live with me, Viggo and Tika. My boyfriend (Skip) is also staying with me. Viggo and Bear know each other... when my boyfriend still had his house, we used to visit all the time and they would play together. We even fed them together at Skip's house and never had any problems.

Fast forward to one day last week. Viggo was sitting near me watching me prep dinner for the boys when Mr. Bear came up to him and tried to but in. Viggo did not like this, so he mouthed Bear on his head (as if to say... this is my space). Bear did not appreciate this action and made a godawful nasty growl (he makes this noise all the time- even if you just accidentally touch him when he is sleeping on the couch). Well this apparently pissed off Viggo cause the next thing I know, the dogs are going at each other. Skip and I separate them. Everything is ok. Well, shame on us apparently, because we tried to prevent this from occuring again by separating the dogs (Bear would wait outside, while Viggo and Tika were fed and then Bear would come back in and get his food). This worked one day. Then the next day (Saturday), Skip let all of the dogs outside (by mistake) and Bear and Viggo broke out into another fight. Apparently, they knew the food was being prepared and Bear crowded Viggo at the back door and then all hell broke loose. Skip ran outside, followed by myself. We got the dogs separated (we grabbed them by the collars- I loved some of the other ideas presented in the other thread about fighting though... would definitely try these next time), but not before Skip had been bitten and Viggo had a puncture wound on his leg.

Viggo was seen by his regular vet and had 4 staples put in his leg. He also has to wear one of those elizabethan collars to prevent him from licking at the wound. Skip's wounds are not very severe luckily.

Lesson learned... we now prevent fights by feeding Bear in a completely separate room. He is placed in the room, door closed, then the food is prepared and brought to him. When all of the dogs are done, he is let out of the room. This seems to be working.

If anyone has any other ideas as to prevent fights from breaking out at feeding time, I'd love to hear them. :-) I'd really like for all of the dogs could be fed together in the same room without any incidents. Right now, that simply does not seem like an option however.

Thanks!!

[PnkFlyd204]

Also, if anyone has any ideas for how to stop Bear from making the awful growling noise, I'd like to hear those too. I think this noise sets Viggo off. Luckily, it only seems to bother him when food is involved, but I'm hoping this does not escalate to anytime Bear makes the noise (and like I said previously, he makes this noise A LOT- like the other day, I was sitting on the couch and he was next to me sleeping and I moved my foot, which apparently woke him him so I got growled at big time). It honestly sounds like he is going to just start fighting.

[spiritualearthangel]

hi ive jus read your bit about wanting to feed all the dogs together, well i mentioned this to my vet, i have a 11 mth old female husky and a 4 yr old jack russell, they have always been fed seperatly, the vet i put the idea to abt eventually feedin them together said why would you want to do that, that jus opens up alot more incidents, jus feed them seperate, so we do.. saves alot of worryin abt them, dont ya think!

[PnkFlyd204]

hi ive jus read your bit about wanting to feed all the dogs together, well i mentioned this to my vet, i have a 11 mth old female husky and a 4 yr old jack russell, they have always been fed seperatly, the vet i put the idea to abt eventually feedin them together said why would you want to do that, that jus opens up alot more incidents, jus feed them seperate, so we do.. saves alot of worryin abt them, dont ya think!

Oh I agree it saves a lot of time worrying, but I guess in my perfect world, everyone would be happy and get along, lol.

[BingBlaze n Skyla]

not sure sorry mine are fine with being fed together - but maybe keep them out the room when food is being prepared n feed them at opposite ends n keep an eye on viggo if he seems to be the 1 who retaliates to the warning growl

[Andy]

Feeding them separately, Good.

Also make sure they are separated when you are eating. So they don't get jealous

over your food, whether you feed tidbits off your plate or not, doesn't matter food is present and can be a cause

for a fight breaking out if one thinks the other is getting too close to your food.

As for the growling, maybe have a squirty bottle (sort of thing you spray indoor plants with) of water at hand

when he growls, squirt. This might be off putting enough to reduce the growling.

[Smiler]

Having this settling Max in with Harley. They both want ownership of each others food as well as their own. So I'm stopping it and giving them the behaviour before it gets out of hand.

I have a pack hierarchy I'm developing with Harley being the older more balanced dog, so higher in the leadership, so Max can learn and take lead from him. So yesterday and today I've crated both of them, then let Harley out and fed him, put him back in, then let Max out and fed him, before letting Harley back out so they are together.

I'm letting them know the order to reduce anxiety and to stop them working it out for themselves. Harley enters spaces first before Max. His lead goes on first etc...and both of them know that I am their leader first, then my wife...then any human - then Harley then Max. We're keeping this consistent so there is no ambiguity in their minds.

In a few days I'll be feeding them both at the same time, bowl down first for Harley, then Max, in opposite ends of the room. Any moves towards each other at this time and I'll block them with my energy. And I'm teaching them that I have ownership of everything, from play, food, toys, everything...

In time they'll each have their boundaries - set by me - so I can feed them both at the same time. As usual, it will take consistency and repetition. In neurology what fires together wires together - so I'm wiring together the right behaviour...hopefully!

Could be worth having a go at the above? Remembering that if a pack member is excluded or treated different to the others then there may be pack separation? So maybe feeding in a different room may not be the best idea? Just some thoughts.

Best regards,

Smiler

[sutsibe]

Be careful about eliminating the growl - it's there for a reason! Frequently, if you eliminate the growl, you eliminate the warning, and the dog learns to just attack without the warning.

[PnkFlyd204]

Be careful about eliminating the growl - it's there for a reason! Frequently, if you eliminate the growl, you eliminate the warning, and the dog learns to just attack without the warning.

Thanks... I never thought about that. Although I have to say that I do think it is obnoxious that he makes this noise when someone happens to accidentally touch him when he is sleeping etc. To warn another dog is OK (like when Viggo mouthed Bear's head), but when another dog doesn't do anything, I do not think it is appropriate.

[Storm Angel n Auroras Mum]

Having this settling Max in with Harley. They both want ownership of each others food as well as their own. So I'm stopping it and giving them the behaviour before it gets out of hand.

I have a pack hierarchy I'm developing with Harley being the older more balanced dog, so higher in the leadership, so Max can learn and take lead from him. So yesterday and today I've crated both of them, then let Harley out and fed him, put him back in, then let Max out and fed him, before letting Harley back out so they are together.

I'm letting them know the order to reduce anxiety and to stop them working it out for themselves. Harley enters spaces first before Max. His lead goes on first etc...and both of them know that I am their leader first, then my wife...then any human - then Harley then Max. We're keeping this consistent so there is no ambiguity in their minds.

In a few days I'll be feeding them both at the same time, bowl down first for Harley, then Max, in opposite ends of the room. Any moves towards each other at this time and I'll block them with my energy. And I'm teaching them that I have ownership of everything, from play, food, toys, everything...

In time they'll each have their boundaries - set by me - so I can feed them both at the same time. As usual, it will take consistency and repetition. In neurology what fires together wires together - so I'm wiring together the right behaviour...hopefully!

Could be worth having a go at the above? Remembering that if a pack member is excluded or treated different to the others then there may be pack separation? So maybe feeding in a different room may not be the best idea? Just some thoughts.

Best regards,

Smiler

it seems all very good and what I have been trying to do but, my foster is not submissive and therefore this is not working lol.

So I've been away from the forum for the past few days and I just noticed that a thread was posted about fighting. It made me want to post my story about what happened to Viggo on Saturday night.

Well first off, a little background. A little over 2 weeks ago, my boyfriend's American Bulldog/Jack Russel mix Bear came to live with me, Viggo and Tika. My boyfriend (Skip) is also staying with me. Viggo and Bear know each other... when my boyfriend still had his house, we used to visit all the time and they would play together. We even fed them together at Skip's house and never had any problems.

Fast forward to one day last week. Viggo was sitting near me watching me prep dinner for the boys when Mr. Bear came up to him and tried to but in. Viggo did not like this, so he mouthed Bear on his head (as if to say... this is my space). Bear did not appreciate this action and made a godawful nasty growl (he makes this noise all the time- even if you just accidentally touch him when he is sleeping on the couch). Well this apparently pissed off Viggo cause the next thing I know, the dogs are going at each other. Skip and I separate them. Everything is ok. Well, shame on us apparently, because we tried to prevent this from occuring again by separating the dogs (Bear would wait outside, while Viggo and Tika were fed and then Bear would come back in and get his food). This worked one day. Then the next day (Saturday), Skip let all of the dogs outside (by mistake) and Bear and Viggo broke out into another fight. Apparently, they knew the food was being prepared and Bear crowded Viggo at the back door and then all hell broke loose. Skip ran outside, followed by myself. We got the dogs separated (we grabbed them by the collars- I loved some of the other ideas presented in the other thread about fighting though... would definitely try these next time), but not before Skip had been bitten and Viggo had a puncture wound on his leg.

Viggo was seen by his regular vet and had 4 staples put in his leg. He also has to wear one of those elizabethan collars to prevent him from licking at the wound. Skip's wounds are not very severe luckily.

Lesson learned... we now prevent fights by feeding Bear in a completely separate room. He is placed in the room, door closed, then the food is prepared and brought to him. When all of the dogs are done, he is let out of the room. This seems to be working.

If anyone has any other ideas as to prevent fights from breaking out at feeding time, I'd love to hear them. I'd really like for all of the dogs could be fed together in the same room without any incidents. Right now, that simply does not seem like an option however.

Thanks!!

That would have been my thread lol, growling sets it off in my house too. Angel growls at Mishka and then they fight. lol

I will be reading this thread as well as my own for tips lol.

[PolarStorm]

we feed our dogs separately. Storm is possessive and Skye has food aggression while our other small dogs couldn't give a damn!! This works for us

[irene]

yes ..i feed mine seperate ...marley ,s best husky friend indy will share anything ..except food

[Bellatrix]

I think your best bet would be to feed them separately. Work on the behavioral issues a little bit at a time. Good luck hun hope it works out for you

[Smiler]

Hi Louise, it doesn't matter that he isn't submissive - you're the pack leader, and if you lead from the front, they'll fall into line...

I don't think it is about submissiveness or dominance - but clear leadership, consistent, fair, and delivered calmly and assertively. Think about if you allowed a human to come and stay with you - would you accept that behaviour? I doubt that you would, and while I'm not saying that your dogs should be treated like humans, I am suggesting that its your house and you're the leader of your house.

It would be worthwhile bringing a behavourist in who really knows dogs body language well, to let you know who is starting, who is responding etc, so you have a chance to go 'not this, THIS!' and redirect. You could even video it, and get a report back.

I thought Harley was being possessive and a little OTT with my new lad Max, though it has been pointed out to me now that Max is the little husky who is pushing his luck first - I hadn't read the signals early enough, I had missed a couple of conversations. Now I can see the early signs, thanks to my friend, I can stop it before it starts.

And as always, its work in progress!

Hope this helps,

Smiler

[Storm Angel n Auroras Mum]

Hi Louise, it doesn't matter that he isn't submissive - you're the pack leader, and if you lead from the front, they'll fall into line...

I don't think it is about submissiveness or dominance - but clear leadership, consistent, fair, and delivered calmly and assertively. Think about if you allowed a human to come and stay with you - would you accept that behaviour? I doubt that you would, and while I'm not saying that your dogs should be treated like humans, I am suggesting that its your house and you're the leader of your house.

It would be worthwhile bringing a behavourist in who really knows dogs body language well, to let you know who is starting, who is responding etc, so you have a chance to go 'not this, THIS!' and redirect. You could even video it, and get a report back.

I thought Harley was being possessive and a little OTT with my new lad Max, though it has been pointed out to me now that Max is the little husky who is pushing his luck first - I hadn't read the signals early enough, I had missed a couple of conversations. Now I can see the early signs, thanks to my friend, I can stop it before it starts.

And as always, its work in progress!

Hope this helps,

Smiler

the huge problem is that she is a girl and I already have an intact girl. Bitch fights spring to mind!

My dog is the one who is instigating it and circling the foster girl, before attacking,

The foster girl has to respond to protect herself.

[Smiler]

Ah, I have two intact males, both adolescents. Doesn't mean they won't get on - in the wild, none of the wolves for example are sorted! Same with wild dogs...

It's worth remembering that dogs don't like to fight. You'll see the yawns before hand for example, that aren't just used for calming signals - its a case of 'my mouth's bigger than your mouth', there'll be eyeballing, the tail movements, the breathing, then the posturing, possibly the growling, all before the attack. The foster girl doesn't have to defend herself - if she doesn't want to fight she won't let it escalate. In the wild no-one may win a fight - and that isn't good for survival.

Have a think about what your dog is gaining from the attacks - and that's a good place to stop any of it happening...

Have you taken them on many pack walks? That can really help, especially if you set the order up right on the walk.

I just had a little fight to separate, food fight over a single piece of kibble on the floor. I'm working beside them and they started over it, I stood up straight away and shout "enough" and as I'm a fella who is accurate with where he puts his hands I quickly pulled them apart as took a deep breath, relaxed as it went out, and calming asked them to go to their crates. They instantly laid down, and are now asleep in them beside me, 10mins later. I just let them know I won't stand for it. After all, I'm the pack leader, they're my pack, and they are no good to the pack injuring each other...

[sutsibe]

Thanks... I never thought about that. Although I have to say that I do think it is obnoxious that he makes this noise when someone happens to accidentally touch him when he is sleeping etc. To warn another dog is OK (like when Viggo mouthed Bear's head), but when another dog doesn't do anything, I do not think it is appropriate.

I agree, to a point - I'd rather have him warn before biting period, but it sounds like he needs a bit of an attitude adjustment, overall - unless there's a physical reason he's grumpy (something wrong). I would at least kick him off the couch (so to speak) if he growls, especially if you feel that it's anything more than complaining, and might even not allow him on it at all. If he IS being bossy and dominant with you, I'd work on the Nothing in Life is Free basis...

I guess what I'm saying is be careful of punishing the symptom (the growl), causing him to act/react without warning, and try to take care of whatever is causing the behaviors...

[Storm Angel n Auroras Mum]

Ah, I have two intact males, both adolescents. Doesn't mean they won't get on - in the wild, none of the wolves for example are sorted! Same with wild dogs...

It's worth remembering that dogs don't like to fight. You'll see the yawns before hand for example, that aren't just used for calming signals - its a case of 'my mouth's bigger than your mouth', there'll be eyeballing, the tail movements, the breathing, then the posturing, possibly the growling, all before the attack. The foster girl doesn't have to defend herself - if she doesn't want to fight she won't let it escalate. In the wild no-one may win a fight - and that isn't good for survival.

Have a think about what your dog is gaining from the attacks - and that's a good place to stop any of it happening...

Have you taken them on many pack walks? That can really help, especially if you set the order up right on the walk.

I just had a little fight to separate, food fight over a single piece of kibble on the floor. I'm working beside them and they started over it, I stood up straight away and shout "enough" and as I'm a fella who is accurate with where he puts his hands I quickly pulled them apart as took a deep breath, relaxed as it went out, and calming asked them to go to their crates. They instantly laid down, and are now asleep in them beside me, 10mins later. I just let them know I won't stand for it. After all, I'm the pack leader, they're my pack, and they are no good to the pack injuring each other...

hmm food for thought there i guess. Not sure what she gets out of it, maybe its similar to when kids misbehave and they get negative attention. negative or not its still attention, I wonder if its the same with dogs?

I can only go on walks with all 3 with the husband and not the kids!

[Michelle Melsom]

Heres an article I read about food aggression it makes sense I have never had a problem with Marius but my moms dog is super food aggressive :/

http://www.dog-obedience-training-review.com/dog-food-aggression.html