SaraB Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I've searched a lot on the web to find sibe breeders, good ones and bad ones. On FB someone posted a link to a guy I consider a BYB. I've seen his website before and could tell from things like he doesn't get the dogs hips checked and lists the puppy's parents by coat and eye color. But he does do rescue. He's definitely not the worst BYB I've found, but I still don't agree with his breedings. So I thought I'd "go undercover" and see if I could learn more about him. Here's how it went: Me: Hi, I was interested in learning what your goals are in breeding siberians. I currently have a female sibe I'm wanting to breed and want to get in touch with other breeders. Do you get their hips and eyes checked before breeding? I'm debating on whether or not to get those tests done. How do you choose who you're going to breed to who? How much do you usually charge for puppies? I've seen sibe puppies go from anywhere from $200 to $2000! Just wondering how people choose how much they are going to sell their puppies for. Thanks! Him: Hello, We do not do the hips test because we don't want to put our dogs under anesthesia to do it. All have had their eyes checked by a vet. We basically breed to improve the Sibes and get as close as possible to a show dog as well as for a healthy dog. The biggest problem in Sibes today in about 14% of them is that the boys may drop only one testicle; if it is not removed, it may cause cancer. We charge $600 because it is still affordable to people, but at the same time, it represents what a puppy's price should be between $400 and $700. We believe that anything over $700 for a puppy just makes the breeder a money-making yard breeder. All our puppies are AKC registered. There are some crazy people who think that by selling them for over $1,000, it makes them better dogs; if you look at their dogs carefully, they don't seem to be. Our males and females cost the same, most of these people mentioned above charge different prices for them. Let me know if you have other questions Me: For the hip testing, I dunno, I'd feel just terrible if I sold a puppy who eventually got hip dysplasia and it was something I could have avoided. On the siberian husky club of america, they recommend doing it and said the number of hip dysplasia in huskies has dropped a lot since breeders started testing. I'm sure you could find a vet who would do the x-ray without anesthesia. My mom had to get one of her dog's hips checked (not for breeding, he just had an issue) and she taught him to stay still on his back and they did it without any meds. I see you do rescue too. How many rescues do you have now? Now this is a moral question, but with so many huskies in rescue, how do you justify adding more to the population? I feel so terrible when I see so many in rescues and shelters. Makes me feel bad for even thinking about breeding. I foster kittens for a shelter near me and I just hate it when I see people let their cats get pregnant. I hounded a friend to get her cats fixed, but of course she kept putting it off and the cat ended up having two litters! Just what FL needs, more cats. I was looking at the website you created, the husky breeder one, and I was a little shocked to see one of the breeders listed under Resources has 8 planned breedings for this year! That just seems like they're doing it for the money to me. Does the $600 end up at least covering the cost of the litter? Him: I used to show since I have a show girl, but I didn't really like it as much because people can be really mean, so I stopped. No, I don't do agility or obedience. Obedience is hard with huskies. That's why I give everyone a two-year guarantee. If anything happens to any of my dogs that is congenital, I would give them another one. In my many years breeding, I have not had any. Thank God! Yes, I have done the X-rays, but some people want a vet specialist to do that and to put them to sleep. I don't have any of those doctors nearby. I breed to improve the breed and only my AKC registered dogs; however, I also breed to help with the rescue; since they can be costly, and there are no grants available anymore, all the money I get from breeding goes to my rescues. I don't have all the available huskies at the house; they can be still in the home they are coming from or at a foster home until I find them a home. I currently have two rescues with me. Wow! I never noticed that someone there had 8 breedings for the year. I will have to contact the board to see what we decide to do. Yes, the $600 per puppy provides extra money if the girl has more than four puppies. The extra goes into my rescue. That is the first time I have ever heard of someone breeding to help fund their rescue. That just seems so wrong to me in so many ways! Plus he puts so much credit to AKC papered dogs like so many other bad breeders. AKC is like a big filling cabnet. It's a convenient way to store names, dates, points, and titles. That is it! AKC does not care what their AKC dogs look or act like. Having AKC papers alone does not make a dog more to the standard. Going to shows or trials and having judges award the dogs who best fit the standard is the way you can tell, not just form AKC paperwork! And just praying to the stars that you don't end up breeding a dog without hip problems when you can actually do something before hand to have a much better chance is just stupid and not worth it to me. Oh and his policy if the dog shows signs of something, isn't to just give you a new puppy like most reputable breeders do (cause they know you've fallen in love with that puppy), but to take that puppy back and give you a new one. From what few pictures he posts on his website, he does have a couple nice looking sibes, but a few of them are pretty far from the standard. So who knows what he thinks the standard is supposed to look like. Oh and the real kicker that doesn't have to do with him breeding is that a lot of his "rescue" dogs are not spayed or neutered! No rescue in their right mind would send out a dog not spayed or neutered! Plus one of them is an upspayed wolf hybrid! Think I should ask him anymore questions or just leave it at that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I think any more questions and he'll be on to you. I don't know what else you would gain by questioning him more. He clearly sees himself as a professional, with perceived justification for everything he does, so thinly veiled reprimands are not going to be well-received or taken seriously. By not desexing rescues is sounds like he tries to keep as low an overhead as possible. I get the impression that he cares for the dogs and the breed in general, just doesn't have a solid understanding of breeding to standard or responsible breeding practices. I would have really liked to see him ask you questions about your intent to breed and practices - if I were a breeder I'd be wary of some random person saying they want to breed their dog and how much to charge... That almost concerns me more than his replies! So while he's not ideal, it doesn't sound like he's a worthy candidate for waging a crusade on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaraB Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Yeah, at first I was hoping that his first response would be to talk me out of breeding! It is sad that he asked me zero questions. I was trying to see if I could maybe guilt him into checking hips and maybe going to shows, but seems like his mind is pretty set on those issues. BTW, from the sibe people I've met at the dog shows, they've all been very nice to me. It really bugs me that he doesn't get all the rescues fixed first. That bugs me more than the fact that he breeds! Oh and on his website he states that he breeds so people who cannot for legit reasons take a rescue can still have a puppy. Not really sure what legit reason a family can't take in a rescue other than maybe they own cats. But it is funny how his story changes from that reason, to breeding to better the breed, to funding his rescue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Oh and on his website he states that he breeds so people who cannot for legit reasons take a rescue can still have a puppy. Not really sure what legit reason a family can't take in a rescue other than maybe they own cats. But it is funny how his story changes from that reason, to breeding to better the breed, to funding his rescue. There's a lot of people who perceive rescues as "broken" dogs, and therefore untrustworthy. My husband's cousin just bought a designer dog from some random BYB so they would "know its history" and so it could "grow up with the family." They'd rather spend more money on a shiny new dog than a rescue, even if the rescue were a pup also. They read "breeder" and see "responsible person who will ensure I have a healthy, problem-free dog," and we all know the truth behind that notion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyse Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 There's a lot of people who perceive rescues as "broken" dogs, and therefore untrustworthy. My husband's cousin just bought a designer dog from some random BYB so they would "know its history" and so it could "grow up with the family." They'd rather spend more money on a shiny new dog than a rescue, even if the rescue were a pup also. They read "breeder" and see "responsible person who will ensure I have a healthy, problem-free dog," and we all know the truth behind that notion! Yeah, and that is SO not true! As most of you (hopefully!) know, I got Suka from the shelter. Now I don't know his background at all, cause I'm his third (and last) owner...but he's the SWEETEST dog I've ever met. Besides a few issues like dominance (which isn't to be blamed on anything except for his genetics. ), he's a wonderful dog! Not broken in the slightest...and issues that did give us trouble in the past (his separation anxiety), we learned to deal with and accommodate. We couldn't have been anymore lucky; sometimes I think we're spoiled cause he is my first dog and he behaves so well. I used to volunteer at the same shelter I adopted Suka at, and a lot of dogs there don't have issues. Granted, the ones that do have really bad aggressive issues are probably PTS before the are put up for adoption. And there was nothing wrong with Suka, either. He was owned for a year by his 2nd owners, who gave him up because they were moving and the place didn't allow a dog of his size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Actually, since we're on the topic of such, I have a mini rant of my own about that misguided notion! With a rescue, each dog is assessed and its information laid out right on the information sheet. If they're good with kids/dogs/cats, activity level, volume, aggression, trainability, if they're house/crate trained, etc. Known vices are usually listed. With a breeder-purchased pup, you may be starting from scratch, which can be good, but how much can you learn about a pup's personality from an hour or two of total visiting time prior to pick up at (usually) 8 weeks of age? The pup is selected based on colour, and maybe some cute little thing they did during a visit. There's a nature vs. nurture argument to be had, but you still don't know what you have until you get them home and raise them for a long time. That a breeder will take a "defective" dog back is all well and good, but one can't ignore the relationship that forms with that animal - they aren't a broken clock to be replaced with a new one. There's no guarantees with rescues either, but you can usually be pretty confident they've had a thorough physical from the getgo. So really, unless you're buying from a highly moral, responsible breeder who has spent the money to do everything necessary to ensure the quality, health and temperament of their puppies, all those 'reasons' for buying instead of rescuing and no longer valid... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaraB Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Very true! At least a good breeder will know what they puppies' dispositions will probably be like (for instance Elara's breeder knew she was going to be dominant and yes she is!), but it's up to the people raising the puppy to know how it will end up being. People can have the best intentions, but still really screw up a dog because they just don't know any better. Like people who are too soft with their dogs and the puppy grows up thinking they are allowed to be dominant over people. I've seen that a couple of time and it can turn out scary. At least with an adult rescue, those same people can get a dog who has learned all its manners and will be a great dog for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutumnAlicia Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 i personally love shelter dogs. Growing up, thats all we had and they were great dogs that will always have a place in my heart. I didnt get Wizard from a shelter but I did adopt him from a woman who was going to take him to a shelter if she couldnt find him a home. And I love wizard to death. There is nothing wrong with shelter dogs. if they are overly aggressive, they wont adopt them out normally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydiamond Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 ... wow. The fact that he doesn't spay/neuter his rescue dogs made me drop my jaw it's scary... who knows if he breed his rescue dog? and plus, why he worships AKC papers so much? It's just a paper =\ all that really matters is show results don't u think? =\ the only way to make sure a dog really fulfills the breed standard is by showing---and he doesn't do it: he relies on papers only O_O I hate BYBs :mad: Diamond came from a BYB.. and she's even MORE irresponsible than this man. Just WHAT kind of person breeds dogs and then leave all 13 pups with someone who has mental disorder?! and plus she moved out of town, never to be found again. Jeez she won't even care who adopts the puppies she created?! :mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyMom09 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 How irresponsible this person is is just SHOCKING! Not altering his rescue dogs before adopting them out, who knows how many puppies those dogs have produced that he isn't aware of! But not ensuring that his dogs are of breed standard and health tested before breeding indiscriminately is SHOCKING! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Melsom Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Breeding to rescue just sounds disgusting to me. I wouldnt ask him anymore questions he will prolly just go on about how theres a reason behind everyhing and not fixing rescue dogs wtf... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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