persephona Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I just read this on Yahoo: http://uk.lifestyle.yahoo.com/five-year-old-raised-gender-neutral.html and for a more graphical idea of what this is about: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4075523/Its-a-boy-Couple-reveal-sex-of-their-gender-neutral-kid-after-five-years.html A COUPLE who concealed the sex of their child and raised it as 'gender neutral' for FIVE YEARS have finally revealed - it's a BOY. Beck Laxton, 46, and partner Kieran Cooper, 44, decided not to reveal baby Sasha's gender in the hope it would let its 'real' personality shine through. They referred to it as "The Infant" and only allowed their child to play with 'gender-neutral toys' in their television-free home. During the first five years of his life, Sasha has alternated between girls' and boys' outfits, leaving friends, playmates and relatives guessing. But Beck and Kieran have finally revealed his masculinity to the world after it became harder to conceal when Sasha started primary school. I am sure that poor kid is going to have a hard time at school because of his "gender" neutral upbringing. The way I see it, the parents did the poor kid a disfavor. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal word and we do need to be aware of gender and the social/cultural differences between genders. What are your thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sian_lea Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 absurd, gender differences are a fact biologically and therefore socially this child is now really going to struggle by the age of 5 a child that has been exposed to gender stereotypes should be able to tell the difference between boy and girl but dont know that gender is fixed, eg a girl plays with a doll so she is a girl the girl plays football so she is a boy. As stereotypical as this is it leads to the next stage in healthy development where they realise gender is fixed even if a boy has long hair or a girl play football with short hair. Which leads to successful social interaction with the opposite and same sex. this child has been delayed in life in my opion i bet the parents didnt think of this!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyse Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I think the parents are idiots. The poor kid is going to be confused and made fun of. Heck...I'm a girl, yet I like video games and other 'boy' things. It doesn't make me any less of a girl, it's just how I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephona Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I agree entirely, that poor kid is going to be made fun off, but he won't even understand why. Are the parents going to allow him to wear that kind of outfits at school? But even if they don't, he will still be very confused about it. I have a feeling that they just wanted to feel special, so they decided to take a "unique" approach to his upbringing, rather than stick with the conventional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 i think he will be confused aswell - why not let him make up his own mind of what he wants to wear n what to play with - i wear jeans n hoodies n play video games etc aswell - doesnt make me less of a girl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arooroomom Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I am thoroughly confused by the purpose of raising the child "gender neutral" at least in the way they did so. Children are going to play with whatever they want, it's the parents who push dolls on girls and trucks on boys. I don't see why they didn't just allow him to play or wear whatever he may like but at the same time acknowledge the fact that he is a boy... It just doesn't make sense. It says when he's at school he will wear a girls top with boy bottoms... Why? What in the world is the point of that? The kids going to be made fun of anyway. You can't shelter the kid forever. I can't see how setting your kid up for ridicule because you feel it makes him more of a "individual" is a load of crap. I dont know why the school is allowing that. Uniforms are uniforms, they arent up for discussion. People and kids are cruel, end of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tams Teeko and Keeta Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 What a pair of idiots! How in the world do they think they've achieved anything at all other than dress their young boy in girls clothes for the world to mock! Without getting into a load of freudian and jeung psychobabble...regardless of the parent's actions, at a very young age that child will have developed an awareness of self, where the child identifies the similiarities between themself and either parent. At this point the child already developed themselves based on the model provided by the parent that they physically resemble...in this case, daddy. These parents probably think they've revolutionised the raising of children when it actually doesn't matter one jot what they did....before he could even talk that kid will have known he was a boy.....all they've achieved is confusion by spending the next 4 years of his life messinng with his own self image by putting him in girls clothes and not allowing him to explore his masculinity. Argh...prats!! Some people should be banned from reproducing!! Sorry....rant over! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sian_lea Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 What a pair of idiots! How in the world do they think they've achieved anything at all other than dress their young boy in girls clothes for the world to mock! Without getting into a load of freudian and jeung psychobabble...regardless of the parent's actions, at a very young age that child will have developed an awareness of self, where the child identifies the similiarities between themself and either parent. At this point the child already developed themselves based on the model provided by the parent that they physically resemble...in this case, daddy. These parents probably think they've revolutionised the raising of children when it actually doesn't matter one jot what they did....before he could even talk that kid will have known he was a boy.....all they've achieved is confusion by spending the next 4 years of his life messinng with his own self image by putting him in girls clothes and not allowing him to explore his masculinity. Argh...prats!! Some people should be banned from reproducing!! Sorry....rant over! :-D couldnt agree more:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistyrayn Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 i heard the interview on radio2 with the mother.. and i can honestly say i was at a loss for words. but she did explain that she does not make him wear fem clothes or play with the fem toys... they are just there and he has the choice of which to wear or play with.. and she did explain the dressing him up in a tutu.. and there was more to it than the media have reported.. Sasha chose at a school play or something out of all the clothes there to put that on and came in wearing it and she took a photo.. simple as that .. not a case of she made him wear it ...he chose to.. i can understand some parts of what she is doing its more a case of freedom of choice without him feeling he cant because thats a girls thing. but also dont understand other bits.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistyrayn Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 i wear jeans n hoodies n play video games etc aswell - doesnt make me less of a girl yeh it does.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 yeh it does.. stfu ! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Totally disagree. I think this was an awesome experiment! It's been often postulated as to how much gender roles are by nature or nurture. Do girls only gravitate toward dolls or is it just because that's what we give them? We ingrain it into boys at an early age that they should avoid "girl things." Girls are discouraged from playing rough while "boys will be boys." I am a total tomboy, and always have been. Fortunately, my parents didn't discourage me from roughhousing with boys (whom I had more friends of than girls), playing in the mud and trading my Barbies for my brother's GI Joes (the Barbies were a better size for his Voltron toys!). I abhor the colour pink and flat out refuse to wear skirts. I was even gender-identified as "masculine" even though I am completely heterosexual. But they DID try to force me to act like a girl in some respects - they would not allow me to join army cadets (though I nearly ended up with a career in the military anyway), I was sent to "girls etiquette school," and was force to dress up in skirts and dresses to special occasions until I was old enough to buy my own clothes, etc. All of which I vehemently rebelled against. While I didn't always fit in I was never ostracized - the hardest part was high school when fashion and make up mattered to girls (and boys on an attraction level), and I just never cared that much about my appearance to waste extra money on it. So I think it's great that some parents are willing to let a child express themselves naturally and not be influenced by social ideologies. The kid just started school, at which point the parents have given up the charade. Sasha knew all along that he was a boy even if no one else did - why on earth should he be confused about himself? What is he going to do to warrant being teased by his classmates? Pick up a "girl" toy? Wear a pink shirt to school that he picked out himself? If he got teased he probably wouldn't wear it again. So what? I already informed most of my friends and family that I won't be telling them the sex of our child (if we even bother to find out) - mostly because I do NOT want "blue for boy and pink for girl." I HATE that all the shit out there for baby boys is race cars and girls are princesses. They want to be a princess anyway? Fine. But I will NOT play dress up with them from an early age to encourage or condition it. I will not shove creepy baby dolls at them to "encourage" their "nurturing nature." I will not using colour to advertise to the world what my baby is. The kid is not going to grow up confused or turn gay because he played with dolls as a child, and to think that would be ridiculous. And this is actually a very GOOD idea for children who are born of indeterminate sex (which does happen - take the case of the 800m world champion Caster Semenya who - though she appears entirely female - turned out to be a chromosomal male). Clinical psychology is rife with accounts of children like this whose parents had to "select" a gender to raise the child as, and they only had a 50-50 chance of getting it right. They would do reassignment surgery to make the child definitely one sex or the other on the outside, but it often happened that the child would be conflicted through life as their own personality and hormones gravitated them toward the other. The result is one seriously traumatized kid. Better to raise them gender-neutral and let them decide as they age. Okay, that's probably long enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4075523/Its-a-boy-Couple-reveal-sex-of-their-gender-neutral-kid-after-five-years.html Theyre from my village.... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tams Teeko and Keeta Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Totally disagree. I think this was an awesome experiment! It's been often postulated as to how much gender roles are by nature or nurture. Do girls only gravitate toward dolls or is it just because that's what we give them? We ingrain it into boys at an early age that they should avoid "girl things." Girls are discouraged from playing rough while "boys will be boys." I am a total tomboy, and always have been. Fortunately, my parents didn't discourage me from roughhousing with boys (whom I had more friends of than girls), playing in the mud and trading my Barbies for my brother's GI Joes (the Barbies were a better size for his Voltron toys!). I abhor the colour pink and flat out refuse to wear skirts. I was even gender-identified as "masculine" even though I am completely heterosexual. But they DID try to force me to act like a girl in some respects - they would not allow me to join army cadets (though I nearly ended up with a career in the military anyway), I was sent to "girls etiquette school," and was force to dress up in skirts and dresses to special occasions until I was old enough to buy my own clothes, etc. All of which I vehemently rebelled against. While I didn't always fit in I was never ostracized - the hardest part was high school when fashion and make up mattered to girls (and boys on an attraction level), and I just never cared that much about my appearance to waste extra money on it. So I think it's great that some parents are willing to let a child express themselves naturally and not be influenced by social ideologies. The kid just started school, at which point the parents have given up the charade. Sasha knew all along that he was a boy even if no one else did - why on earth should he be confused about himself? What is he going to do to warrant being teased by his classmates? Pick up a "girl" toy? Wear a pink shirt to school that he picked out himself? If he got teased he probably wouldn't wear it again. So what? I already informed most of my friends and family that I won't be telling them the sex of our child (if we even bother to find out) - mostly because I do NOT want "blue for boy and pink for girl." I HATE that all the shit out there for baby boys is race cars and girls are princesses. They want to be a princess anyway? Fine. But I will NOT play dress up with them from an early age to encourage or condition it. I will not shove creepy baby dolls at them to "encourage" their "nurturing nature." I will not using colour to advertise to the world what my baby is. The kid is not going to grow up confused or turn gay because he played with dolls as a child, and to think that would be ridiculous. And this is actually a very GOOD idea for children who are born of indeterminate sex (which does happen - take the case of the 800m world champion Caster Semenya who - though she appears entirely female - turned out to be a chromosomal male). Clinical psychology is rife with accounts of children like this whose parents had to "select" a gender to raise the child as, and they only had a 50-50 chance of getting it right. They would do reassignment surgery to make the child definitely one sex or the other on the outside, but it often happened that the child would be conflicted through life as their own personality and hormones gravitated them toward the other. The result is one seriously traumatized kid. Better to raise them gender-neutral and let them decide as they age. Okay, that's probably long enough... Not sharing the sex of an unborn child is completely different from not allowing a child to acknowledge their own gender for 5 years. This poor kid hasn't even people able to acknowledge the fact that he is a boy to his own family and friends. He's been brainwashed from birth to keep his gender hidden as if its something to be ashamed of. I totally respect peoples decision to steer clear of gender stereotyping with children (i have had many boys in my class who just love to put on a princess dress and dance about) but to actually make a child keep their own gender a secret....its plain wrong. I'm not a girly girl...nothing was ever shoved down my throat and I wasn't refused a tool kit at age 7. But I made those choices for myself. Giving children choice is great...but this particular family or 'experiment' has taken this kids choice away. Children shouldn't be moulded into a social experiment. They should be allowed the facts and allowed to roll with them how they please. With children born of indeterminate sex...thats sadly always going to be a grey area. My huge apologies if this comes across argumentative...but this kind of thing infuriates the hell out of me. This particular family are claiming they've made some revolutionary movement and provided their kid with the chance to develop independent of gender...but really they've just locked this poor child in his own head not allowing him to even express his gender to relatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Not sharing the sex of an unborn child is completely different from not allowing a child to acknowledge their own gender for 5 years. This poor kid hasn't even people able to acknowledge the fact that he is a boy to his own family and friends. He's been brainwashed from birth to keep his gender hidden as if its something to be ashamed of. I totally respect peoples decision to steer clear of gender stereotyping with children (i have had many boys in my class who just love to put on a princess dress and dance about) but to actually make a child keep their own gender a secret....its plain wrong. I'm not a girly girl...nothing was ever shoved down my throat and I wasn't refused a tool kit at age 7. But I made those choices for myself. Giving children choice is great...but this particular family or 'experiment' has taken this kids choice away. Children shouldn't be moulded into a social experiment. They should be allowed the facts and allowed to roll with them how they please. With children born of indeterminate sex...thats sadly always going to be a grey area. My huge apologies if this comes across argumentative...but this kind of thing infuriates the hell out of me. This particular family are claiming they've made some revolutionary movement and provided their kid with the chance to develop independent of gender...but really they've just locked this poor child in his own head not allowing him to even express his gender to relatives. Not argumentative, but it's something I'm willing to debate! I don't think that keeping his sex (as a socio-anthropology major I have a huge issue with these terms being constantly inter-changed!) secret was all that horrendous a brainwashing. I mean, if they raised him with the assumption that it was no big deal, saying "we don't tell people we're a boy," t'is really no different than "we don't ask people how much money they make." I can't says I ever met a little kid that's come up to me and went "I'm a girl!!!" It doesn't sound to me - from the parents' perspective nor the child's in the article - like he's ashamed or confused about his sex. He knows he's a boy, finally revealing it is no huge deal (well, except maybe now for the media-circus!). I read an article around Hallowe'en a year ago about a boy and his mother who ended up enduring mass criticism because he chose to be Daphne from Scooby Doo for Hallowe'en. She was just his favourite character and Hallowe'en is all about dress up, but it was more the parents than the school children who judged him for it. ETA - the original blog: http://nerdyapple.com/my-son-is-gay/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kechara Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I think the parents are dumb for thinking they've "revolutionized" anything. People have basically been doing this for a long time. And while the early ages are super important for development, so are pretty much all the years after that until college or so.. The kid might be more open to different things but his peers in school will also shape him for better or worse. As much as we like to think differently, society will always play a role in that. On that note I think it's great they let him choose whatever he wanted to play with or to wear. I got that kind of treatment when I was young as well and I loved it. I loved dresses, was scared to death of baby dolls, loved my legos and dinosaur toys just as much as my "pet shop barbie" lol. It was pretty much 50/50 to me, I never cared (or maybe I never knew) what people judged me to be like... That said, later in life things got a little rougher. Middle school and high school sucked because there wasn't a niche for me. Guys didn't want to hang out with a girl (eww cooties + it just wasn't cool), and I had next to nothing in common with girls. I didn't like make up or fashion (still think it's a waste of money), and didn't give a rat's butt where they went shopping and got their new bag/purse/thing. Enjoyed video games mostly through those years and ended up with more friends online than "real life", mostly because they were guys that I could bs and chat with (many of them didn't believe I was female lol). After grade school, I had very few friends, so I spent most of the time either playing games or with my dog. As of now I still have a very hard time having a conversation or connecting at all with women. Have had relationship issues in the past because I get along better as friends with guys which brings jealousy into the picture... luckily my OH has been very understanding about it. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that people outside of societies "norms" may have a tougher time. I don't regret what I've done nor do I blame my parents for anything since it was always my choice. Who knows though, maybe this kid will have it a bit easier. Sorry for the long post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydiamond Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 my thoughts about this, you asked? Here's my thoughts in one word---> IDIOTS!!! -.- it's a boy just tell the world it's a boy whats so wrong with his gender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aronoiiel Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I don't understand the point of it really. Letting him choose what he likes yeah my parents did that and I like what I like and screw the rest of the world and yadda yadda. Keeping his gender a secret won't do much to shape him as a person though THAT comes with schooling and we've all been there and should know that as a fact. What they support him in and what he chooses in life has nothing to do with what they are doing now. Frankly I think they are holding themselves on a pedestal thinking they have done something revolutionary. If he decides that he wants nothing but boy things when he gets older are they going to smack him down and tell him that he is being to main stream? What if he wants all girl things are they going to tell him he needs to put more variety in his life so he's not pegged but a clique? Maybe I'm to dumb to see what they are thinking because frankly I just don't understand the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I think the parents are dumb for thinking they've "revolutionized" anything. People have basically been doing this for a long time. And while the early ages are super important for development, so are pretty much all the years after that until college or so.. The kid might be more open to different things but his peers in school will also shape him for better or worse. As much as we like to think differently, society will always play a role in that. Yes, I totally agree with you there. For all the media hype about this it isn't a new thing - "radical" parents have been doing this for decades, and some of my university courses made frequent mention of the studies that were performed where multiple groups of parents did this exact same thing. And that's just it though - while society will still make its mark, I really think it opens the door to a more open mind. From now on, his peers may tease him for wearing a pink shirt, but at the same time, he's never going to fully accept that there's anything fundamentally wrong with it, even if he stops doing it. It's also interesting to note that society is far more tolerant of girls behaving in "boy" ways, but when a boy displays effeminate behaviours - tea parties, nurturing a baby doll, picking flowers - these are actively discouraged en mass. There are some arguments that this kind of upbringing is why men struggle to take truly nurturing roles or act as primary caregivers to children - perhaps it is true that genetically they aren't wired that way by instinct, but it is discouraged from the getgo. Girls ought to become babysitters, while boys who grow up and want to work in a daycare are probably pedophiles. There is no doubt that when a boy is raised in a home where there are "pink" jobs and "blue" jobs, he too will identify these roles in his adult relationship as ones that he or his mate should perform accordingly. And these boundaries can be very hard to overcome. So I still say props to any family who encourages their sons to bake and their daughters to help fix the car. I get that people are upset with the whole experimenting on your own child bit in the refusing to tell people Sasha was a boy, but then, isn't the way all children are raised essentially a social experiment? That this one deviates from the norm is therefore aberrant, but in those early years outside gender biases from others may very well be telling, and honestly I'm pleased that they gave up the ghost when Sasha started school. To make him continue to be androgynous in such a setting would have been damaging, because that too would have effect on how people treat him, and not in a positive way. At 5 years old, kids are more likely to ask "why are you wearing a girl's shirt?" and his response might be "it's not a girl's shirt, it's my shirt" or "because I like the puppy on it." Both of which might just get an "oh. Okay," response from another 5 year old child. Not all children are terrible little piranha who will attack anything that deviates slightly from their perceived norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosemary Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 So I still say props to any family who encourages their sons to bake and their daughters to help fix the car. I get that people are upset with the whole experimenting on your own child bit in the refusing to tell people Sasha was a boy, but then, isn't the way all children are raised essentially a social experiment? That this one deviates from the norm is therefore aberrant, but in those early years outside gender biases from others may very well be telling, and honestly I'm pleased that they gave up the ghost when Sasha started school. To make him continue to be androgynous in such a setting would have been damaging, because that too would have effect on how people treat him, and not in a positive way. At 5 years old, kids are more likely to ask "why are you wearing a girl's shirt?" and his response might be "it's not a girl's shirt, it's my shirt" or "because I like the puppy on it." Both of which might just get an "oh. Okay," response from another 5 year old child. Not all children are terrible little piranha who will attack anything that deviates slightly from their perceived norm. It is interesting that children of that age will accept his reply of "it's not a girl's shirt, it's my shirt", without any further discussion, and quite happily carry on playing. It is when they hear their parents and other adults discuss the 'inappropriateness' of him wearing a 'girl's shirt' that a seed is planted, and they then take on the narrow mindness of their parents/society, and so the cycle continues. The next time his friend wears the 'girl's shirt' it will be his parents'/societies words that then come out of his mouth, not the words of an innocent child who accepts the behaviour of his friend. That in itself is sad, because that is when the terrible little piranha is born. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tams Teeko and Keeta Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 There is nothing at all wrong with boys wearing pink (many boys clothes now come in pink), there is nothing wrong with letting boys choose the toys they'd like to play with and nothing wrong with letting the boys play dress up. None of this is going to cause issue in school or with his peers. The part of this whole thing that is wrong in my eyes is the secrecy and the refusal to allow this child a choice. He has only been allowed unisex toys......the kid is 5!! Does that mean he has never played with a toy car or a doll? That isn't choice. Thats restriction.. He has been forced to keep his gender a secret from even his closest relatives. He has never heard the sentence 'haven't you been a good boy!'. Again....he is 5!!! He has been called 'the infant' by his parents. Do they seriously think he has never overheard this. Could there be a more impersonal statement they could choose for their own child I wonder! Allowing him to be a boy would not have affected his personality. He would have developed as an individual in his own skin. Instead, he has been raised thinking his own skin and...dare I say it, namely his own genitalia....is a reason to be ashamed and keep secrets. Whether they have told him it this way or not....by 5 years old this is what has filtered through into his brain. If he had spent his first 5 years of life wrapped up in cotton wool and not allowed out to play incase he bumped his knee, people would be in uproar about their over protectiveness. Instead these morons have tried to protect a child from his own physicality which he has been aware of from as young as 3 to 5 months old. This child knows he is a boy.....he also knows that his being a boy has been kept a secret. And he has known this for 5 years. What these people have done is not revolutionary or providing this boy with freedom to choose. It hasn't been about avoiding gender stereotyping. Thats bloody easy! Take your kid to the toy shop and let them pick anything at all! Bull! These people have restricted their own child in his early stages of development and then told the god damn world about it. This kid never got the chance to choose. Choice is one thing....but nothing good ever comes from secrecy and deceit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyka&Diva Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 what idiots im a girl and i was the biggest tom boy ever growing up im still abit boyish now i have 2 sons who have had girly time my eldest had a doll and pushcahir when he was younger but he is now computer mad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 The part of this whole thing that is wrong in my eyes is the secrecy and the refusal to allow this child a choice. The only choice he was denied was that to tell other people he’s a boy. I still truly think that if handled right this would be a complete non-issue for him. As I said, I’ve never had any of my nieces or nephews come up to me and say “I’m a girl!†“I’m a boy!†He has only been allowed unisex toys......the kid is 5!! Does that mean he has never played with a toy car or a doll? That isn't choice. Thats restriction.. Direct quote from the article: “and encouraged Sasha to play with dolls as well as Lego and dress in boys’ and girls’ clothes at home.†So they weren’t restricting him to unisex toys, they were offering him a full range of toys and clothing for him to choose from and pick his preferences. That is the ultimate in gender-neutrality! He has been forced to keep his gender a secret from even his closest relatives. He has never heard the sentence 'haven't you been a good boy!'. Again....he is 5!!! He has been called 'the infant' by his parents. Do they seriously think he has never overheard this. Could there be a more impersonal statement they could choose for their own child I wonder! So what? Do you really think that means they’ve never praised him? Why is “good boy!†so much more important than “well done, Sasha!†You really think he identifies a difference? Why would a 2-5 year old hear “the infant†and think it offensive? I’ve heard far more offensive terms used in endearing ways! Allowing him to be a boy would not have affected his personality. He would have developed as an individual in his own skin. Instead, he has been raised thinking his own skin and...dare I say it, namely his own genitalia....is a reason to be ashamed and keep secrets. Whether they have told him it this way or not....by 5 years old this is what has filtered through into his brain. I would be very interested to see and hear more about this child. I don’t get the impression that he is embarrassed or ashamed of his sex – for all we know he could have also thought it merely a fun game to keep people guessing! Assigning the expectation of shame for not revealing himself is unwarranted and rather jumping to conclusions, I think. If he had spent his first 5 years of life wrapped up in cotton wool and not allowed out to play incase he bumped his knee, people would be in uproar about their over protectiveness. Instead these morons have tried to protect a child from his own physicality which he has been aware of from as young as 3 to 5 months old. This child knows he is a boy.....he also knows that his being a boy has been kept a secret. And he has known this for 5 years. What these people have done is not revolutionary or providing this boy with freedom to choose. It hasn't been about avoiding gender stereotyping. Thats bloody easy! Take your kid to the toy shop and let them pick anything at all! Bull! These people have restricted their own child in his early stages of development and then told the god damn world about it. This kid never got the chance to choose. Choice is one thing....but nothing good ever comes from secrecy and deceit. Have you been to a kids’ store lately? They don’t have to be very old to figure out that boy toys are here and girl toys are there. The girl aisles are solid eye-searing pink, dotted with cotton candy and turquoise. You don’t think boys quickly learn to be ashamed to even walk down those aisles? You don’t think the outside influence of other parents and children would teach them that shame? For the purposes of the parents’ intent, not telling people makes perfect sense. The gifts family and friends would have bought would be guiding – we’re programmed to look for suitable boy/girl toys and clothing. There are lots of unisex toys, but we still gravitate toward the “appropriate.†Sasha has only just started school and his sex is no longer secret. The heaviest social interaction years of his life are ahead and unhindered by this “shame†of keeping the secret. I think that kid will have a very good handle on his likes and dislikes, completely untainted at the start by engendering social indoctrination and judgment by his parents. And to think that because of this unisex upbringing he will be the subject of torment from his peers and/or be conflicted and ashamed only solidifies the theory that despite our “egalitarian†culture we still very much embrace and reinforce gender roles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 It is interesting that children of that age will accept his reply of "it's not a girl's shirt, it's my shirt", without any further discussion, and quite happily carry on playing. It is when they hear their parents and other adults discuss the 'inappropriateness' of him wearing a 'girl's shirt' that a seed is planted, and they then take on the narrow mindness of their parents/society, and so the cycle continues. The next time his friend wears the 'girl's shirt' it will be his parents'/societies words that then come out of his mouth, not the words of an innocent child who accepts the behaviour of his friend. That in itself is sad, because that is when the terrible little piranha is born. Your statement is very true. It brings to mind a conversation I once had years ago with a 12-year-old about the war in Iraq. She brought it up completely at random with disparaging remarks, talking about how the Americans found the weapons of mass destruction and how they'd blow those dirty people right off the map. She was infuriated when I told her they never found anything and they were even saying on the news that the initial claim was false. Nope, I was wrong and didn't know what I was talking about and the hate she practically bled genuinely shocked me. A 12-year-old doesn't have that kind of passionate opinion on a war being fought by another country. Her parents do. The hate and filth this child was being bombarded with at home was astonishing, and to disagree with what she her parents thought meant you were an idiot. Adults with this kind of indoctrination are no better. Any time I hear a racist or homophobic comment I feel the need to ask "and just how many gays/blacks/Mexicans/Natives/whatever have you met?" Usually it stops them dead and they actually have to think about it. A rural farm teen/young adult throwing the word "fag" around at anyone who acts in any perceived effeminate way can rarely say that they've ever truly met a gay person to form any kind of judgement on them. Their experiences are purely the disgust and derision from their parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tams Teeko and Keeta Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 The only choice he was denied was that to tell other people he’s a boy. I still truly think that if handled right this would be a complete non-issue for him. As I said, I’ve never had any of my nieces or nephews come up to me and say “I’m a girl!†“I’m a boy!†Direct quote from the article: “and encouraged Sasha to play with dolls as well as Lego and dress in boys’ and girls’ clothes at home.†So they weren’t restricting him to unisex toys, they were offering him a full range of toys and clothing for him to choose from and pick his preferences. That is the ultimate in gender-neutrality! So what? Do you really think that means they’ve never praised him? Why is “good boy!†so much more important than “well done, Sasha!†You really think he identifies a difference? Why would a 2-5 year old hear “the infant†and think it offensive? I’ve heard far more offensive terms used in endearing ways! I would be very interested to see and hear more about this child. I don’t get the impression that he is embarrassed or ashamed of his sex – for all we know he could have also thought it merely a fun game to keep people guessing! Assigning the expectation of shame for not revealing himself is unwarranted and rather jumping to conclusions, I think. Have you been to a kids’ store lately? They don’t have to be very old to figure out that boy toys are here and girl toys are there. The girl aisles are solid eye-searing pink, dotted with cotton candy and turquoise. You don’t think boys quickly learn to be ashamed to even walk down those aisles? You don’t think the outside influence of other parents and children would teach them that shame? For the purposes of the parents’ intent, not telling people makes perfect sense. The gifts family and friends would have bought would be guiding – we’re programmed to look for suitable boy/girl toys and clothing. There are lots of unisex toys, but we still gravitate toward the “appropriate.†Sasha has only just started school and his sex is no longer secret. The heaviest social interaction years of his life are ahead and unhindered by this “shame†of keeping the secret. I think that kid will have a very good handle on his likes and dislikes, completely untainted at the start by engendering social indoctrination and judgment by his parents. And to think that because of this unisex upbringing he will be the subject of torment from his peers and/or be conflicted and ashamed only solidifies the theory that despite our “egalitarian†culture we still very much embrace and reinforce gender roles. The only choice he was denied was that to tell other people he’s a boy. I still truly think that if handled right this would be a complete non-issue for him. As I said, I’ve never had any of my nieces or nephews come up to me and say “I’m a girl!†“I’m a boy!†Direct quote from the article: “and encouraged Sasha to play with dolls as well as Lego and dress in boys’ and girls’ clothes at home.†So they weren’t restricting him to unisex toys, they were offering him a full range of toys and clothing for him to choose from and pick his preferences. That is the ultimate in gender-neutrality! So what? Do you really think that means they’ve never praised him? Why is “good boy!†so much more important than “well done, Sasha!†You really think he identifies a difference? Why would a 2-5 year old hear “the infant†and think it offensive? I’ve heard far more offensive terms used in endearing ways! I would be very interested to see and hear more about this child. I don’t get the impression that he is embarrassed or ashamed of his sex – for all we know he could have also thought it merely a fun game to keep people guessing! Assigning the expectation of shame for not revealing himself is unwarranted and rather jumping to conclusions, I think. Have you been to a kids’ store lately? They don’t have to be very old to figure out that boy toys are here and girl toys are there. The girl aisles are solid eye-searing pink, dotted with cotton candy and turquoise. You don’t think boys quickly learn to be ashamed to even walk down those aisles? You don’t think the outside influence of other parents and children would teach them that shame? For the purposes of the parents’ intent, not telling people makes perfect sense. The gifts family and friends would have bought would be guiding – we’re programmed to look for suitable boy/girl toys and clothing. There are lots of unisex toys, but we still gravitate toward the “appropriate.†Sasha has only just started school and his sex is no longer secret. The heaviest social interaction years of his life are ahead and unhindered by this “shame†of keeping the secret. I think that kid will have a very good handle on his likes and dislikes, completely untainted at the start by engendering social indoctrination and judgment by his parents. And to think that because of this unisex upbringing he will be the subject of torment from his peers and/or be conflicted and ashamed only solidifies the theory that despite our “egalitarian†culture we still very much embrace and reinforce gender roles. Fair points though it wont change my view lol...nor will my view change yours of course. As with the schooling.....at 5 he should have been in the school system for 2 years. I still don't think any good is going to come of this and think the media frenzy they have allowed is ridiculous and unfair on the child. As for toy shops...at 29 I still love toy shops! All children should visit toy shops! I shall say no more! My view is as it is. But...in my job I suppose its one of those things that really hits home, seeing how affected children can be by the smallest thing and the dent this can have on their social abilities and self esteem. So, it does anger me...immensely....but I do of course hear what you are saying about avoiding steretyping into gender but really....dont you think there is a better way to do it? :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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