Shock Collars

[Marc]

What's wrong with picking an easier option? Why would you want to make training harder for yourself than it needs to be? I would always choose the option that is going to give me the best results in the quickest time.

Got to admit, Im impartial either way as I dont know enough about them. However that statement is a little wrong Bec LOL. If my wife was misbehaving and not doing tea at the right time the easier option would be to buy a whip and whip her each time she does it wrong. Would save arguements and would get the best results in the quickest time.

For the benefit of the tape, I don't own a whip LOL

[Bec]

Got to admit, Im impartial either way as I dont know enough about them. However that statement is a little wrong Bec LOL. If my wife was misbehaving and not doing tea at the right time the easier option would be to buy a whip and whip her each time she does it wrong. Would save arguements and would get the best results in the quickest time.

For the benefit of the tape, I don't own a whip LOL

LOL - sure you don't Marc!

My point is that I am not going to use a tool like an e-collar as a last resort if I know it is the best option for the dog (and owner) in question. Why go through 10 other methods when you know they aren't going to work to give the best result? Every time we use different methods on a dog and fail, the dog becomes that much more resistant to training.

There are loads of ways to train a reliable recall, my preference is to use a method called training in drive, and if I can get at 100% reliable recall doing it that way, then I will - every time. However that doesn't work for all owners and all dogs.

I will always use the method of training that will get me (if I am training my own dogs) or the owners (if I am teaching someone else to train their own dog) the best results, and I am certainly always going to want to use the method that works the best and fastest. E-collars are one of least aversive tools out there which why I chose to use one with my dog.

On a side note I haven't yet come across someone who still thought e-collars were cruel once I put one on them and shown them how we use them.

[Sarah]

Got to admit, Im impartial either way as I dont know enough about them. However that statement is a little wrong Bec LOL. If my wife was misbehaving and not doing tea at the right time the easier option would be to buy a whip and whip her each time she does it wrong. Would save arguements and would get the best results in the quickest time.

For the benefit of the tape, I don't own a whip LOL

you whip me and it will be the last thing you ever do!

[Marc]

you whip me and it will be the last thing you ever do!

You'd love it

[Laine]

Hey! I thought this was a family forum you two!

[Arooroomom]

Got to admit, Im impartial either way as I dont know enough about them. However that statement is a little wrong Bec LOL. If my wife was misbehaving and not doing tea at the right time the easier option would be to buy a whip and whip her each time she does it wrong. Would save arguements and would get the best results in the quickest time.

For the benefit of the tape, I don't own a whip LOL

[Marc]

Hey! I thought this was a family forum you two!

Hey this is cooking training .... What every woman should do LOL

[Sarah]

[Dunc]

Behave you 2

[Ice and Cripton]

I would disagree with them I have NEVER used a shock collar on my dogs, I am totally against shock collars, they might work but I disagree with them why I disagree them? Well when you click that button you send a shock to your dog's neck and when that dog feels that he/she knows that you did it, and it will break up the forever bond between you too. That's in why I don't use them and never will. Just my advice;) .

Interesting theory however if true then the bond in wolf packs would be seriously damaged. Alpha's put the pack in their place when needed, sometimes this comprises of a nip of sharp teeth to their neck and standing over them growling, not allowing them to move - however in wolf packs the bond is arguably the strongest family unit in the animal kingdom. When a puppy is with it's mother, it knows after several corrections from her that if they misbehave mum will tell them off - yes they know the correction comes from her - does it break the bond - no.

[Elyse]

IMO, wolf behavior shouldn't be compared with dog behaviour. Yes, there are some similarities, but that's about it. The 'dog pack' structure is completely different than a wolf pack's.

[Ice and Cripton]

Wolf and dog behavior in a pack is almost identical - yes there are differences but i can give a dog example too. If Alaska is eating her pigs ear and Balto is done with his and tries to pinch hers, she will give warnings and if he does not listen she will snap and chase him off (which was identical to what a wild wolf pack did on "Living with wolves) - does he know the correction is from her - yes, does it affect their bond - no, they still curl up next to each other at night time, corrections, rules and boundaries only strengthen bonds, they dont weaken them.

[Bec]

The fact I support the use of e-collars and use them myself has nothing to do with wolf behaviour - I use it because it's an effective and humane tool.

[Hyshqa]

Wolf and dog behavior in a pack is almost identical - yes there are differences but i can give a dog example too. If Alaska is eating her pigs ear and Balto is done with his and tries to pinch hers, she will give warnings and if he does not listen she will snap and chase him off (which was identical to what a wild wolf pack did on "Living with wolves) - does he know the correction is from her - yes, does it affect their bond - no, they still curl up next to each other at night time, corrections, rules and boundaries only strengthen bonds, they dont weaken them.

This is not true. I recommend this book as a good read: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dominance-Dogs-Fiction-Barry-Eaton/dp/1929242808/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334013676&sr=8-1

[Arthur]

A lot of people here says NO to shock collars, first we have to use other methods, etc..Ok,I understand just please show me a few husky off the lead when U try recall them :)using the traditional methods of learning.For me was impossible. WhenI started usingSC the learn recall was done in hour.I think many people criticize but do not know how it worksSC;)(signal,vibra etc).SC IS not ONLY SHOCK:)

[Ice and Cripton]

This is not true. I recommend this book as a good read: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dominance-Dogs-Fiction-Barry-Eaton/dp/1929242808/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334013676&sr=8-1

Okay so you disagree with the 1st part, after the first sentence I can assure it IS true Everyone forget wolves for a second - thats my opinion and it's cool if people disagree however i am disputing the point that if the dog knows the correction has come from their human owners or fellow canine pack members it does not damage the bond as long as they understand the correction. Thats my point. So back to the point e-collars or dogtra collars IF used properly do not damage any bonds with your dog.

[Ice and Cripton]

Alaska has amazing recall done the traditional way - she loves to play fetch so i kind of get her that way However it is not 100% - I am investing on a Dogtra collar for her dog aggression and recall, i dont need it for any other training as she is intelligent and very well behaved for the most part Here she is at the beech off-lead when she was 2 years old.

[Storm Angel n Auroras Mum]

im going to pout my two cents in here.

To be honest is putting an electric collar on really training recall??

Thats just how I see it.

[Bec]

im going to pout my two cents in here.

To be honest is putting an electric collar on really training recall??

Thats just how I see it.

I think it helps to understand how the collar is used to train recall. The way I use it, the stim is a cue for the dog to recall, then eventually the dog is taught to recall fast enough to 'beat' the stim, so once it is trained, you don't use the stim anymore.

If your dog comes 100% of the time immediately the first time you call it, even if the collar isn't used, is that a recall? IMO, it sure is!

[BingBlaze n Skyla]

A lot of people here says NO to shock collars, first we have to use other methods, etc..Ok, I understand just please show me a few husky off the lead when U try recall them :)using the traditional methods of learning.For me was impossible. When I started using SC the learn recall was done in hour.I think many people criticize but do not know how it works SC;)(signal,vibra etc).SC IS not ONLY SHOCK:)

I don't let my girl off the lead , after all she is still a sibe ;-) however I let her drag a long line behind her , here is a vid ov me recall training her with the use off treats and praise only ,I've never used a shock collar and never will , because I don't have 2

Takes her a while at first because we had just got on the field n hadn't been for a while

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[Storm Angel n Auroras Mum]

I think it helps to understand how the collar is used to train recall. The way I use it, the stim is a cue for the dog to recall, then eventually the dog is taught to recall fast enough to 'beat' the stim, so once it is trained, you don't use the stim anymore.

If your dog comes 100% of the time immediately the first time you call it, even if the collar isn't used, is that a recall? IMO, it sure is!

there are more humane ways to teach this surely?

I cannot recall Storm, not even on a 100ft lead.

Doesnt mean I will use a shock collar on him.

[Bec]

I don't let my girl off the lead , after all she is still a sibe ;-) however I let her drag a long line behind her , here is a vid ov me recall training her with the use off treats and praise only ,I've never used a shock collar and never will , because I don't have 2

I initially trained my dog's recall without any physical corrections, just using her food drive too She was pretty good but not what I would class as 100% reliable. Her recall only lacked reliability when she was a far distance away from me.

How can you know your dog's recall is 100% reliable if you never let her off the long line? You can't be sure she hasn't been taught to recall only within the the length of the line - not saying you should let her off the leash, just playing devil's advocate.

It's also important to remember that every dog is different, and not all dogs can be trained the same way. How can you be sure you'll never need to use an e-collar, what if you get a dog that has no value for food rewards? Are your other dogs 'as easy' to train as Skyla?

[Bec]

there are more humane ways to teach this surely?

I cannot recall Storm, not even on a 100ft lead.

Doesnt mean I will use a shock collar on him.

IMO e-collars are one of the least aversive tools out there!

It's hard to explain over the net - because people think 'shock' and then get scared about what that means - I have put my e-collar on dozens of people and they cannot feel the level of stim my dog works on. It's not mean to hurt her, it's meant to be the lowest perceivable level she can feel.

As I said above, my dog's recall was very good. This was taught purely with food rewards, but being a scent hound there were times when she was so stuck on a scent she simply could not hear me calling her. The e-collar means I can give her a cue for her recall from any distance. She doesn't need to be able to hear me. She is conditioned to know the cue from the e-collar means recall.

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[BingBlaze n Skyla]

I initially trained my dog's recall without any physical corrections, just using her food drive too She was pretty good but not what I would class as 100% reliable. Her recall only lacked reliability when she was a far distance away from me.

How can you know your dog's recall is 100% reliable if you never let her off the long line? You can't be sure she hasn't been taught to recall only within the the length of the line - not saying you should let her off the leash, just playing devil's advocate.

It's also important to remember that every dog is different, and not all dogs can be trained the same way. How can you be sure you'll never need to use an e-collar, what if you get a dog that has no value for food rewards? Are your other dogs 'as easy' to train as Skyla?

She escaped the other week , April fools day lol , she doesn't usually run out the house , n she came back when I called her

I don't intend 2 ever let her or the others offlead it's there for emergencies only , blaze isn't as easy 2 train as skyla as he isn't really interested in treats but he gets there with his training in time just takes abit longer than skyla does , I know I won't ever use a collar like this on them because I'd rather just put in hours n hours ov work with them for an emergency recall , rather then train them a recall 2 allow them offlead because they don't need 2 go offlead , hope that makes sense , I also have 100ft leads I use aswell so I recall them at different lengths , I have had skyla offlead before n she didn't leave my side lol . I just don't NEED 2 let them off

If I let bings offlead he will come when I call him , even off rabbits etc n if I drop his lead on walks he just stops till I pick it up again

[Storm Angel n Auroras Mum]

She escaped the other week , April fools day lol , she doesn't usually run out the house , n she came back when I called her

I don't intend 2 ever let her or the others offlead it's there for emergencies only , blaze isn't as easy 2 train as skyla as he isn't really interested in treats but he gets there with his training in time just takes abit longer than skyla does , I know I won't ever use a collar like this on them because I'd rather just put in hours n hours ov work with them for an emergency recall , rather then train them a recall 2 allow them offlead because they don't need 2 go offlead , hope that makes sense , I also have 100ft leads I use aswell so I recall them at different lengths , I have had skyla offlead before n she didn't leave my side lol . I just don't NEED 2 let them off

If I let bings offlead he will come when I call him , even off rabbits etc n if I drop his lead on walks he just stops till I pick it up again

I think you are commendable. You could let her off very easily. But you sensibly choose not to.

Thats very admirable. xxxxxxx