Shock Collars

[Huskies On The Go]

Well I tell you what I had my response written up for you to see and NOW I have to redo it all.:mad: It got removed.

[Bec]

Well I tell you what I had my response written up for you to see and NOW I have to redo it all.:mad: It got removed.

Removed? LOL really?

[Sid_Wolf]

Why do people feel the need to do this so their dog can go offlead.

How about respecting the breed traits & keeping the dog either on a lead (100ft is more than enough space, my offlead dog isnt allowed much further away than that)or in a safe enclosed area.

Anyone who done any research about the breed would have known about the breed restraints before committing to a husky, so respect those restraints.

I have nothing against shock collars, but I dont agree with the use of them in a husky offlead situation. Most sibes are stubborn enough to keep running until they are out of range anyway.

[Bec]

Why do people feel the need to do this so their dog can go offlead.

How about respecting the breed traits & keeping the dog either on a lead (100ft is more than enough space, my offlead dog isnt allowed much further away than that)or in a safe enclosed area.

Anyone who done any research about the breed would have known about the breed restraints before committing to a husky, so respect those restraints.

I have nothing against shock collars, but I dont agree with the use of them in a husky offlead situation. Most sibes are stubborn enough to keep running until they are out of range anyway.

I know many Sibes that have been trained on remote collars and I don't know any that have 'kept running' until the collar is out of range.

I think it comes down to what I talked about before. Every owner has different priorities. For some owners training a reliable recall is a serious priority regardless of breed. I don't understand the difference between using a remote training collar on one dog or breed and not another? Who cares if it is used properly and appropriately and works for the dog and owner?

The reason I got a remote training collar was to train that last bit of reliability into my beagle's recall, if it wasn't for her high scent drive (a component of the breed) I wouldn't have needed to use it. Following your logic I should have just "respected her breed" and not bothered training a reliable recall at all.

[Sid_Wolf]

I know many Sibes that have been trained on remote collars and I don't know any that have 'kept running' until the collar is out of range.

I think it comes down to what I talked about before. Every owner has different priorities. For some owners training a reliable recall is a serious priority regardless of breed. I don't understand the difference between using a remote training collar on one dog or breed and not another? Who cares if it is used properly and appropriately and works for the dog and owner?

The reason I got a remote training collar was to train that last bit of reliability into my beagle's recall, if it wasn't for her high scent drive (a component of the breed) I wouldn't have needed to use it. Following your logic I should have just "respected her breed" and not bothered training a reliable recall at all.

if people want a dog who is reliable offlead they should get a breed which doesnt have 'running, for miles, without stopping' as a breed trait. Every husky org int he world says that sibes should be onlead, so its not like this info is difficult to find. Want an offlead dog - dont get a sibe. That just IMO.

[Storm Angel n Auroras Mum]

if people want a dog who is reliable offlead they should get a breed which doesnt have 'running, for miles, without stopping' as a breed trait. Every husky org int he world says that sibes should be onlead, so its not like this info is difficult to find. Want an offlead dog - dont get a sibe. That just IMO.

there will always be the person who wants to have the exception to the breed Sid.

[Bec]

if people want a dog who is reliable offlead they should get a breed which doesnt have 'running, for miles, without stopping' as a breed trait. Every husky org int he world says that sibes should be onlead, so its not like this info is difficult to find. Want an offlead dog - dont get a sibe. That just IMO.

So all the people in this thread and elsewhere who have used remote training collars to train their Sibes to have a reliable recall should just not have bothered? If it works for them who cares? I am not saying everyone should do it, but why judge those who have and have had success with it. Wanting to train as reliable a recall as possible does not make someone a bad owner or mean they don't 'respect' their dog's breed.

ETA: If a client brings their dog to us and says 'My biggest problem is that my dog doesn't come when it's called' we are hardly going to turn them away if they then add 'It's a Siberian Husky'. Some owners want a dog that recalls reliably, in fact I haven't met a single dog owner yet who prefers to have a dog that blows off it's recall. If we have a method we can give them to attain that reliable recall then why wouldn't we help them?

[Storm Angel n Auroras Mum]

So all the people in this thread and elsewhere who have used remote training collars to train their Sibes to have a reliable recall should just not have bothered? If it works for them who cares? I am not saying everyone should do it, but why judge those who have and have had success with it. Wanting to train as reliable a recall as possible does not make someone a bad owner or mean they don't 'respect' their dog's breed.

ETA: If a client brings their dog to us and says 'My biggest problem is that my dog doesn't come when it's called' we are hardly going to turn them away if they then add 'It's a Siberian Husky'. Some owners want a dog that recalls reliably, in fact I haven't met a single dog owner yet who prefers to have a dog that blows off it's recall. If we have a method we can give them to attain that reliable recall then why wouldn't we help them?

I would love to have storm recall.

Would I use an electric collar to achieve it?

No I would not.

[Bec]

I would love to have storm recall.

Would I use an electric collar to achieve it?

No I would not.

That is your decision Just as others have the right to decide to use them

[Laine]

if people want a dog who is reliable offlead they should get a breed which doesnt have 'running, for miles, without stopping' as a breed trait. Every husky org int he world says that sibes should be onlead, so its not like this info is difficult to find. Want an offlead dog - dont get a sibe. That just IMO.

That's not fair to say, Sid, at all. People get Sibes for LOTS of reasons. And just because someone might want them off lead, and train them for off lead, doesn't mean they shouldn't get the dog.

That's like people telling us we can't have our Sibes inside the house because it's cruel, they were meant for outdoor life and living in minus fifty/sixty degree weather. Or telling people who live on or around the equator they can't have a Sibe because it's too hot there and they were not bred/built for that environment.

You get on the "if you don't like this or fit this criteria for the breed, you shouldn't have it" and you can start cherry picking things for all breeds. Heck, if this is the case, no one should have the breeds they have at all, for one reason or another, UNLESS they are doing as the breed was made for. So, no terriers for people who don't use them to handle rats and do earth hunting, no hunting hounds if they don't hunt, no pointers if they don't bird, no herding dogs if they don't do herding, etc and so on. And no, it doesn't matter if they do other sports with their dogs because they're not doing what the breed was intended.

See how stupid this gets with that kept in mind?

Some people use SC's and Pinches and other ways to train their dogs, that's on them.

Some people keep their dogs on lead and train only minimally, that's on them.

That does NOT make EITHER choice wrong and right now BOTH sides of this debate - for and against - are becoming that stubborn, "No, you're wrong!" and... well... other things for someone DARING to do something with their dog that they don't approve of.

To bring all this back on topic; if I want to train for a dog sport that requires a dog be off lead - obedience, agility, companion dogs, dock diving, etc - and a sc would help me train a reliable dog off lead, AND if nothing else worked for my dog, yes, I would use a sc. But that is if nothing else would work. I personally would prefer not to use one. That said, if someone who does know how to use them properly uses them for their dogs, who are you, me or anyone else to tell them no it's wrong, it's evil, it's harming the dog, etc and so on? Are you using it? Do you know? Those in this thread have said, multiple times, that they've used the sc on their dogs at a low setting and that they have tested it on themselves as well. These people aren't just throwing these on and setting them on high settings and honestly it's not fair that the users here seem to be lumped in with the idiots who DO use them improperly.

At the same time, there are people who don't use them and would never use them, that they would prefer to have their dog on lead at all time. That doesn't make their dogs less trained or less loved, less cared about or less anything. Just means that's how their owners want their dogs to be. To say "you won't know less you try it" does make sense, yes, but it also comes across like you're pushing people who don't believe in these things to use them, kind'a like the kid who tries to push other kids to do something they don't want (peer pressure anyone?). So they don't want their dogs off lead; they have them on leads long enough to allow for running and that's all that should matter. (for the record, while 100ft leads are made, I haven't found ANY that I can get here, and I even checked E-bay, so I'm stuck with 30ft lunge lines, or putting two or more together, a PITA really).

In the end, so long as the dogs are happy, EITHER WAY (sc or no sc), then really, who cares?

[Sid_Wolf]

i dont mean that people shouldnt get them and want a recall, all my dogs have a recall, BUT they are only offlead in the dog park, where it is safe. But people who KNOW they want an offlead dog, do some research then get a sibe? Wrong IMO, it's in their blood & even with a shock on, I still dont think that a sibe should be 100% trusted, they are stubborn, and can run out of range if they are mid chase, especially if the 'stim' is low. Just because you havent seen it, doesnt mean it doesnt happen, happens all the time with the electric boundary fences.

BTW im not talking about those who train as much as possible without one then use one to get that last little bit of reliability, i mean people who use one all the time. That dog doesnt have 100% recall, that dog has 100% recall with a shock collar on. Totally different IMO

[Dunc]

Coming back to this everyday is getting extremely boring...............

Get over it some will let them off leads some won't and no amount off tell either in CAPS TO GET YOUR POINT OVER IS GOING TO STOP IT ( so stop that now )

[Laine]

i dont mean that people shouldnt get them and want a recall, all my dogs have a recall, BUT they are only offlead in the dog park, where it is safe. But people who KNOW they want an offlead dog, do some research then get a sibe? Wrong IMO, it's in their blood & even with a shock on, I still dont think that a sibe should be 100% trusted, they are stubborn, and can run out of range if they are mid chase, especially if the 'stim' is low. Just because you havent seen it, doesnt mean it doesnt happen, happens all the time with the electric boundary fences.

BTW im not talking about those who train as much as possible without one then use one to get that last little bit of reliability, i mean people who use one all the time. That dog doesnt have 100% recall, that dog has 100% recall with a shock collar on. Totally different IMO

You're lucky to have a dog park; I have none at all available to me, so kind'a have to adapt.

In the end, you're still saying the same thing Sid; if they like a sibe, fine, but the moment they want it offlead, they shouldn't get it. That's not fair at all. *shrug* Your opinion though so we'll agree to disagree.

No dog can be 100% trusted, IMO. None, not even those trained reliably.

We're not talking electric boundary fences though, they're a whole other kettle of fish and whole other debate.

The problem is it still seems - to me at least - you're lumping anyone who uses a shock in with those who use them reliably. Though I agree, the ones who use them all the time don't have a reliably trained dog for recall, they have it trained for recall while the collar is on. That said, I don't think the people here who've used it do this, or even advocate using them like this.

[Elyse]

Can't we all just agree to disagree!?

Everyone has opinions; but that doesn't give anyone the right to shove it others' faces.

[Dunc]

Can't we all just agree to disagree!?

Everyone has opinions; but that doesn't give anyone the right to shove it others' faces.

Well said

[Sid_Wolf]

You're lucky to have a dog park; I have none at all available to me, so kind'a have to adapt.

In the end, you're still saying the same thing Sid; if they like a sibe, fine, but the moment they want it offlead, they shouldn't get it. That's not fair at all. *shrug* Your opinion though so we'll agree to disagree.

No dog can be 100% trusted, IMO. None, not even those trained reliably.

We're not talking electric boundary fences though, they're a whole other kettle of fish and whole other debate.

The problem is it still seems - to me at least - you're lumping anyone who uses a shock in with those who use them reliably. Though I agree, the ones who use them all the time don't have a reliably trained dog for recall, they have it trained for recall while the collar is on. That said, I don't think the people here who've used it do this, or even advocate using them like this.

its just not something i understand, the need for a dog to go off it's lead (though mine are pets & worked in harness, so they dont 'need' to, if that makes sense? As I said in my 1st post even my offlead dog (not a sibe) isnt allowed much further than 100ft away, so a 100ft lead is plenty of space, even when offlead i must be able to see him at all times.

I let Grey offlead once, around another dog who had great recall, Grey used to go offlead with his previous owners so his recall is OK, but not perfect, but he was quite fond of the other dog so would come back with her. Even though I knew the area like the back of my hand and knew he would come back I was still so so stressed out, it wasnt an enjoyable experience at all lol

we are incredibly lucky to have the dog park, especially since we are in the UK, dog parks are very few and far between unfortunately. But my boys dont get to go there as I cant trust them completely around other dogs. The girls get to go every now and then, but more for socialisation rather than free running, they like seeing their doggy friends

If I dont get another sibe, my next dog is going to be a collie I think, because I do want a dog I can have off the lead, mainly because im lazy and its easier than long leads! lmao plus I want to do agility which may mean it having to be loose in an unenclosed area. Diesel was ment to be my agility & long offlead walks dog, but he didnt quite turn out that way! lol

personally for me, though i dont have an issue with shocks used correctly, same as im fine with a prong used correctly, i would much rather that the majority of people did hate them, at least then it might put the idiots off using them incorrectly. I also dont think you should be able to pick them up on ebay or in shops, they should only be avaliable via trainers after the owner has been taught how to correctly use them.

[robke]

Agree with you there Elyse...agree to disagree...

[Biggles]

I haven't got involved in this debate as I don't have enough knowledge to give an opinion. But, I do think after reading through the thread maybe it should be left as an agree to disagree. Just my opinion, so please don't shoot me.

[Arooroomom]

...WhenI started usingSC the learn recall was done in hour.

I hope you are continuing to teach, practice, and condition! Recall isn't "taught" in an hour to any dog, regardless of breed!

[Arthur]

I hope you are continuing to teach, practice, and condition! Recall isn't "taught" in an hour to any dog, regardless of breed!

But maybe not foe every teacher.

Anyway some people using to learning clicker,cheese etc etc,i used the signal(again not shot and no vibra).I have the efect and cant see nothing wrong to use like that SC.

[Laine]

Whatever, I'm done with this and HO.

[Sid_Wolf]

Whatever, I'm done with this and HO.

eh? whats up?

[Arooroomom]

But maybe not foe every teacher.

Anyway some people using to learning clicker,cheese etc etc,i used the signal(again not shot and no vibra).I have the efect and cant see nothing wrong to use like that SC.

There is no way to condition the dog to recall reliably under every situation and stimulus with distractions in an hour. It's not humanly possible.

[Elyse]

People

I know I'm not a mod/admin and I'm probably overstepping my boundaries here...but just stop arguing! I know you're all wanting others to see/adopt your opinion, but it isn't going to happen!! Like I said before:

Can't we all just agree to disagree!?

Everyone has opinions; but that doesn't give anyone the right to shove it others' faces.

[Arooroomom]

I know I'm not a mod/admin and I'm probably overstepping my boundaries here...but just stop arguing! I know you're all wanting others to see/adopt your opinion, but it isn't going to happen!! Like I said before:

There are only a few who are really "arguing" otherwise i've read most of this thread as people sharing experiences an opinions. There have been a few parts where it's gotten spatty but otherwise I feel it's gone pretty tame. This is a hot topic (not just among Husky owners) but is probably exacerbated by the fact most dogs trained with an e-collar are in fact off leash.