How to argue against Hills kibble?

[Kissu & Aara]

Took Kissu to the vet this morning and of course diet came up. Long story short, she said Blue Buffalo Wilderness and TOTW were crap foods and that most high-end foods are not at all what they claim to be. Told us that we wanted to look for Food Trial foods vs Formulated foods. And then started directing us towards Hills Science Diet. I know that quite a few people agree that HSD is crap. She started in saying how it does have corn, and that while corn is a filler, that it is healthier than the dyes and additives the high-end grain free food claims to not have.

I could already tell that she was hinting at HSD and said that none of our dogs did well on food that had corn and wheat and that between my moms dogs' food allergies and Kissu's pickiness we had gone through many brands and the ones that claimed to be healthier did indeed have healthier results. Then she said something about only 5% of dogs don't do well on corn and it seems that our 4 dogs are in those 5%. What are the odds?!

I know they're paid to promote Hills, but quite honestly, it pisses me off. I know it's everywhere in other things in life, but obviously I want to get as close to the best as I can for Kissu.

And as they're professionals, I want to trust them. If I didn't go by healthy results, I would listen to her just because she's a vet and I am not.

I'm a passive aggressive person. And I have high anxiety, so I start to doubt my knowledge because I get anxious and confused.

Basically, I would like to form a list of key results of healthier kibble foods to be able to defend myself better and train myself to not second guess myself so much just cause they're a professional. And how to argue back that just because a dog doesn't have an allergic reaction to corn or wheat, doesn't mean it's not as healthy as they may want me to think.

I don't mean a yelling match argument. But just to let them know I've done my research and know what foods my dog has done best on and how I know that it's best. Like 'less shedding, less waste, shinier coat etc and why doesn't Hills do that?'

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[Elyse]

Just tell her like you said...that my dogs don't shed as much, they have a shinier coat, etc. If she still tries to push the Hills brand on you...I'd try to go to another vet. Any vet that pushes anything on me would probably try to perform unnecessary 'tests' just to get more money.

By looking at dogfoodanalysis.com, I see that the Hills brand of kibble are rated 1 star (out of 5) and their top 1-3 ingredients are ALL grains/fillers/poor quality meat by-products.

Ask her (sacrastically), why do dogs NEED corn or other fillers when they have teeth that are specifically adapted to eat and tear meat or meat products? Then, if she stutters, launch the 'raw' and 'BARF' diets at her and see what she thinks.

FYI, when I took Suka to the vet last time, she checked his teeth. She was amazed at how clean they were when I don't brush them, and she asked me how I did it...I told her that I feed him raw bones once in a while to get all the crap off. She was intriged.

If your vet is put off by the raw food, then she isn't open to new ideas and is only going by what she was taught in University, so you should switch to another vet.

[HuskyMom09]

I agree, be polite but firm. Tell your vet all the benefits your dogs are getting on quality food vs. a filler filled crap food like HSD. As a vet she should be able to see how healthy your animals are. Many vets will push Hill's because they get kickbacks from the company to do so (the same as a Dr recommending a new drug on the market because the cute pharmaceutical rep sent him on a golf trip in Tahiti for a "seminar" on the new med).

When we got Rockie from the shelter he was on HSD, a whopping 6-8 cups a day for his recommended weight range that had deteriorated from 110lbs (on a raw diet) down to 60lbs on the Hills (he's not a Siberian and his ideal target weight is between 100-110lbs). We had Jurassic Park sized soft poops multiple times per day, his coat was dull and thinning, he never stopped shedding, his energy level was low, and don't even get me started on the GAS!!! He was not as healthy as he could have been because of this diet. I didn't even bother slow switching him, got him on an appropriate diet and things started to improve. We had been feeding Wellness Core, and the first thing I noticed was he only needed 3 cups for his weight range, the poops became a once maybe twice daily occurrence of a more normal size and consistency, and no more stinky gas. His energy level came way up, his coat started filling in, became shiny and beautiful, and only shed the normal 2 times per yer. That was more than enough evidence for me.

[Kissu & Aara]

Thank you. I told her how I was (and will continue to feed) raw liver cut into cubes for his suspected ZRD because he was improving until he scratched it so bad it bled. She said to go ahead and keep feeding the liver but to cook it cause of salmonella poisoning.

And she did talk about wanting to do tons of tests to find out what it was, before treating it. I do really think its ZRD, but I'm not a vet and I don't know how many other things it could possibly be. She was leaning more toward a non contagious mite, but didn't give any names of types of mites it might be.

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[HuskyMom09]

Thank you. I told her how I was (and will continue to feed) raw liver cut into cubes for his suspected ZRD because he was improving until he scratched it so bad it bled. She said to go ahead and keep feeding the liver but to cook it cause of salmonella poisoning.

And she did talk about wanting to do tons of tests to find out what it was, before treating it. I do really think its ZRD, but I'm not a vet and I don't know how many other things it could possibly be. She was leaning more toward a non contagious mite, but didn't give any names of types of mites it might be.

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I had a ZRD scare, poor Diamond would itch and itch and itch until her elbows were open and bleeding and she chewed "tail lights" on her rump. She would have good weeks and not so good weeks so it was really inconsistent. After talking with many Siberian people, they started steering me toward it and my vet was highly suspicious that it could be ZRD. Turns out it was Sarcoptic Mange, NOT ZRD causing all of the issues. Other things to consider is Demodex Mange and Flea Dermatitis.

[Kissu & Aara]

Are any of those around the head only? He only has it around his muzzle, and has had it for quite a while with out it spreading. It started out looking a lot like ZRD, I started feeding liver cubes, and it gradually over about a month started to clear up. Then one day he scratched it so bad it bled quite a bit and that's when I demanded he see a vet even though it would mean not being able to afford moving house for another month.

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[Kissu & Aara]

Here is a few pics what it looks like now.

When he's dry, it doesn't look that red.

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[Mazz]

Any dog food with corn has the potential of containing aflotoxins, which can be lethal. If corn is not stored or transported properly, it can become moldy. That is when aflotoxins develop. Once an aflotoxin exists in the corn, it cannot be processed out. That is one reason why we won't give our Huskies any food that contains corn.

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[Kissu & Aara]

Any dog food with corn has the potential of containing aflotoxins, which can be lethal. If corn is not stored or transported properly, it can become moldy. That is when aflotoxins develop. Once an aflotoxin exists in the corn, it cannot be processed out. That is one reason why we won't give our Huskies any food that contains corn.

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Will definitely bring that up. Thank you. That's one I didn't know.

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[Synphny]

Well that vet is just trying to up sell you on crap food because they are getting a kick back and was brainwashed in college where they attended. A high school buddy of mine who went on becoming a vet who told me that Nestle the maker pet food like Purina, Beneful, and others donates millions and inserted themselves an elective course in major universities on teaching proper nutrition. Also the only education that vets ever gets taught on nutrition is that class unless they take it upon themselves to further that education.

So at this point you are mostly more educated than the vet in terms of nutrition. Also check this link as well it gives you a lot of information regarding dog food dry and wet. It also shows how to do an impartial analysis between dry and wet food. Also it shows who are the makers of these dog food. Btw Hills is by a company who makes toothpaste and dish washing soap (yea like they really know how to make dog food).

http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?more=1&p=359

Also a quick note is that there is 2 types of vets here in the US one is the typical vet who earns their degree and goes by conventional methods and the other is also a vet who goes by conventional methods but they go one step further by getting a holistic certification. What that means is that this vet has gone under additional training in proven alternative ways besides a pill to treat pets these vets tend to be more open minded and have no problem with BARF or prey model diets. You do have a choice who you choose as a vet and it sounds like that vet of yours is a ass because they didn't provide any comparative evidence beyond what is the HSD pamphlet.

Below is a rather disturbing video of how some company makes their dog food.

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HSD was actually involved in that particular case, but I think it ended up in litigation limbo.