What is technically "incestuous breeding"?

[BMac91]

Just an odd question I have. I got our AKC papers back today for our male dog, and saw something I wasn't too fond of..

We had not really decided if we wanted to breed or not, wanted to obviously let the dogs get older and see how they turn out physically and mentally before duplicating them, however, this is the information I found in the papers today.

Mika's Mother Is Skye.

Kato's Father's Mother is Skye.

I am just wondering where the line is drawn out of curiosity on this, is this considered incest still? We have pretty much decided to have them fixed because of this, just still curious about the situation.

Thanks All.

[Elyse]

Just an odd question I have. I got our AKC papers back today for our male dog, and saw something I wasn't too fond of..

We had not really decided if we wanted to breed or not, wanted to obviously let the dogs get older and see how they turn out physically and mentally before duplicating them, however, this is the information I found in the papers today.

Mika's Mother Is Skye.

Kato's Father's Mother is Skye.

I am just wondering where the line is drawn out of curiosity on this, is this considered incest still? We have pretty much decided to have them fixed because of this, just still curious about the situation.

Thanks All.

Yeah, I'd say that's incest still.

I think Mika would be the aunt of Kato.

[SaraB]

I think that's a little close of a breeding. I know a lot of breeders do a mother's sire is XXX and father's grandsire is XXX, but the breeding your describing is closer than that.

[BMac91]

Well I figured that, but like I said didn't know if the gene pool was different in dogs. I know this is completely off, but like in fish it's ok to breed in with in for a certain point etc. Didn't know, sorry if it was a stupid question...

[Sarah]

no such thing as a stupid question x

[Elyse]

No question is a stupid question - it's alright!

[AttilaVikingsDemon]

Hi, I think I can help answer your question by giving you three methods of breeding, what they each are for, and why. The 3 basic types of breeding systems are Linebreeding, Inbreeding, and Outcrossing. Although all of these systems aim to strengthen desirable traits and eliminate faults through selective breeding, they go about it in different ways. Linebreeding Linebreeding is the mating of related dogs that are removed from each other by at least one generation(for example, cousin to cousin grandson to grandmother). The sire and dam typically share a common quality ancestor in the second or third generation that is known to pass on its desirable traits to its progeny. Linebreeding enables a breeder to "fix" correct type in her or his stock breeding quality genes in successive generations. This limits the flow of new genes into teh breeding stock. Outcrossing With outcrossing, a breeder attempts to eliminate faults by pairing dogs that hopefully will complement each other. The dogs to be mated do not share common ancestors in the first 5 generations, but each is selected because it has shown itself able to pass on the quality traits the other lacks. This is not random selection. For example, a stud from a line known for its strong hindquarters would be chosen for a bitch from a line possessing good fronts but weak hindquarters. Hopefully, the resulting offspring would retain her good fronts and his good hindquarters. Outcrossing is used when linebreeding fails to correct a particular fault, and a line that is thought to be complementary is used to compensate. Outcrossing adds new genes to the bloodline, rather than intensifying ones already present. Unstructured outcrossing is the usual pattern for neighborhood litters (Mr. Mayhem has a Siberian male, Mr. Marduk has a Siberian female) there is no known common link.

Inbreeding Inbreeding is the mating of closely related dogs, such as sister to brother, daughter to father, or mother to son. These matings intensify the genes present in the bloodline, as no new genes are introduced. This system, when used by knowledgeable breeders, can fix type quickly and bring uniformity to desired traits in a line. It can also enhance any faults. Faults that normally would lie dormant because they are recessive traits are more likely to be expressed in inbred animals because of the limited number of possible gene combinations. These faults ultimately can be eliminated, however, as those animals exhibiting or carrying the trait would be removed from the breeding program. Inbreeding can be an effective method when used sparingly by knowledgeable, experienced breeders. It rarely is used in successive matings and is combined with linebreeding techniques. I hope this helps you out, I have some books that cover this area, and that is what I shared here with you. A thread was recently posted in where this question arose and some members were shocked:eek: when Sutsibe said correctly that inbreeding doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing, it has its application and is in fact, used by experienced breeders as explained above. I hope this helps to answer your question

[sutsibe]

The aunt/nephew breeding you've described is linebreeding, and it's quite common. As Attila mentioned above, it's very commonly used to "set" desirable traits in a line. Used properly, inbreeding and linebreeding can be very good things. Neither one will CAUSE bad genes to mutate into being - they WILL, however, cause any recessive genes that are in common in both parents (more likely in closely related individuals), good OR bad, to show up and be visible. A wise breeder will use one or both (I'm not brave enough - or wise enough) to use true inbreeding, myself) judicially, and use outcrossing to largely unrelated individuals to bring in desirable traits...