is someone mistreating my boy??

[mydiamond]

not sure where to post this, but I think this is the best section. So I start to realize that every time I took Diamond to the groomer's he's always so terrified. First visit, that's normal. This is a brand new area for him and he's still one fearful dog that time. Second visit, say what he's still scared? Hmmm >.> Third visit, I finally spoke to the salon's owner and she said that she have just fired a groomer because he's "too rough" with the dogs. The salon now also let dog owners watch their dog being bathed so that all groomers can be monitored at all times. All was well. Diamond never encountered any problems since then. HOWEVER...

Last week's visit (just to trim his nails and buy a squeaky toy):

*) refusing to jump out of car

*) refusing to enter salon

*) tail hid between back legs, body pulled behind, super fearful attitude

*) needs someone to carry him so that he'd enter the salon

*) I watched when his nails are being trimmed. He's very calm but 100% refused when the groomers tried to touch his ears (are they stupid? I have just told them that he HATES being touched in the ears 5 minutes ago)

Today's visit (the real bath and grooming)

*) persistently refusing to enter salon

*) tail hid, body pulled behind, dodging my hands when I tried to carry him

*) a groomer showed up and helped me carry him and he's instantly okay??

*) I can't watch over him for 3 hours today but I really wish he's okay

So... Is there any legit reason why he would be so afraid of the grooming salon? Is anyone mistreating my boy? >.> Suspect list:

1) one of the groomers. After all, they're the one bathing him and trimming his fur. Low possibility though I kept an eye on them the other day and everyone's very patient with any kind of dog

2) my driver?? Sometimes I came home to a Diamond-less house and my dad says he sent Dime to the groomer's because "he stinks". The one that drives him to the groomer is always this one driver... >.> But he is a dog owner too he has three dogs at home

3) other dogs there. Diamond's sooooo submissive he's an easy target for bully dogs. But then again, the majority of the breeds that visited the salon are shih tzu and pomeranian. Those noisy bugs bullying my husky?

so what do you think guys?

[Synphny]

Have you tried to take Diamond to a different groomer? Also as dogs bullying him size hardly matters, its more or less about the personality. I have seen a 15 pound terrier mix bullying a bull mastif weighing 140pounds. Also try this get a brush and start brushing diamond see how he reacts. If he backs away or gets very scared then you know that the act of brushing has somehow scared him and point you closer to the fact that it is the groomer. Hope this helps

[Rosemary]

Olivia, maybe he is not fearful, he may just not like being handled by strangers - I don't know.

[Kara]

Poor Diamond! I have no real truth to add to the situation, just thoughts, I tend to think sometimes one bad experience at something can leave a fear that is complicated to get over.

When we were young, we left Buddha and Alice in our truck for about two hours (not a hot day at all and all windows were slightly down) on a busy street in San Francisco, and ever since then any large truck type vehicle passing us while in a car they would both dive for the floor, they traveled a lot camping with us through the years, and were perfectly fine, but as soon as any large or loud thing would pass us by they would freak. Now you may say they always had this problem, but we had just traveled 3000 miles over 4 weeks seeing the country and they did not have this problem the whole time, till that one day in San Fran, so we think some large street sweeper fire truck, or something passed by the vehicle that day and made them scared for another 10 years of their lives. Its not really the same thing, but I hope it gets my thought across.

Bathing???? does Diamond have an issue with bathing if you were to do it.... at home or outside? as my Alice would scream like she was being tortured, enough that the neighbors would come over to inquire! and Buddha would shake uncontrollably. Gracie loves it and swims in the tub, and thinks its a treat, however I don't like doing the treat! Gracie does not like the sound of the blow dryer and runs away if not held by two of us, and Alice hated it, and would freak out, Alice was not a fan of being brushed either, but wouldn't cause a commotion like she did with bathing or drying. Buddha had issues with nail trimming, and any electric hair grooming and nail trimming gadgets were my money wasted, as they both freaked out at even the sound of the things.

Long story short, I would test what he might not like about the groomers, noises or body feelings such as water or vibrations or both, and if none of those, it may be the people.

long winded sorry:rolleyes:

[Sarah]

I would speak to the owner and voice your concern, or get your driver or parents to do it.

If you speak to them, say that he's still fearful of coming and you'd like to help him over come it. Maybe just go once a week and walk him in, let him have a fuss and treats and then take him home, no grooming, just let him feel safe there

[Stranger]

You recently said that Diamond had bad ears, could it be that every time he goes to the groomers, they clean his ears? and that its not so much being groomed, but the fact he is afraid of being hurt (touching his ears)?

[Hyshqa]

Kiska hates being bathed and brushed - when she sees me get a towel and dog shampoo out she hides and I have to carry her upstairs and literally hold her in the bath. She doesn't cry and desperately scramble to get out, but she has a really upset look on her face and will attempt to jump out if she sees even the smallest escape route. I'm not mistreating her, she just really doesn't like the whole process. You might find that none of the groomers are doing anything wrong with Dime, he just really doesn't like to get a bath.

[mydiamond]

[MENTION=7045]Synphny[/MENTION] he loves brushing times has always been and still does. Good info about the "size doesn't matter" btw thanks a bunch

@Rosemary Dime is very picky with the kind of strangers he's ok with. So technically yea he's ok with a stranger handling him but that stranger must be this and that and shouldn't be this and that and this and that maybe one of the groomers didn't fulfill his 'good person' criteria?

@Kara that's a good info thanks! I do know he hates bath times but he's always calmer when he's in the salon (probably because of his 'I must look good in every stranger's eye' attitude) so he always go there for bimonthly baths. Is it just him making the equation "salon = bath = hell = I do NOT want it" ? Hmmmmm....

@Sarah everyone in the salon knows that Diamond's afraid of coming in she should have already known but I'd love to talk to her when I see her next time =\

@Stranger hmmm could be. They always trim the fur inside Dime's ears because his vet says he needs it. Back to desensitization then =\

@Hy'Shqa he hates baths alright but there are times when he'd walk in and out of the salon without making a fuss. Well his intolerance of people handling his ears have just raised recently so that might be it.... Still not sure though

[Stranger]

As long as they dont pluck the ears, and just trim the hair that shouldnt cause any problems, but when trimming, it probably tickles, which causes irritation, they probably have to hold him too if they need to trim the hairs.

If he starts flinching then i would be concerned....have you tried taking him else where to see if he reacts the same?

[Kissu & Aara]

I read in a book that dogs don't like when they or we are bathed because afterwords we and they don't smell quite right. Kissu sniffs me all over sometimes after I shower.

I may just be spouting bull, but it sounds like he's a bit insecure. Makes sense to me though. After I bathe Kissu he immediately goes to the door like he desperately needs to go potty. So not willing to risk it, I take him out. What does he do? Rolls in the grass.

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[mydiamond]

I read in a book that dogs don't like when they or we are bathed because afterwords we and they don't smell quite right. Kissu sniffs me all over sometimes after I shower.

I may just be spouting bull, but it sounds like he's a bit insecure. Makes sense to me though. After I bathe Kissu he immediately goes to the door like he desperately needs to go potty. So not willing to risk it, I take him out. What does he do? Rolls in the grass.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

LOL at Kissu x) yea he's insecure indeed =\ if parents allow I'll search for another grooming salon

[Austinville]

While I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of the groomers being too rough for Dime's liking, I wouldn't jump to conclusions either. My first husky absolutely HATED going to the vet. We've always been allowed to go in with the dogs, so I know it wasn't a case of him being hurt there. So I began to look at it from his point of view. New place, new smells and he's expected to go in, have the work done and leave. He never got the opportunity to 'know' what/who had been there and what happened to them. Couple that with the smell of death - from dogs/cats/etc. being put down at various times (realistically speaking here - death has a smell and canines can smell it. They may not know what actually happened, but they can differentiate the smells). Who wouldn't be fearful?

Look at it like visiting a hospital. YOU know you're going there to get better, but that doesn't mean that others haven't died there.

I found that with Bo, the best thing I could do was to arrive a few minutes early to allow him to take in all the scents permeating through the facility. It really calmed him.

With Ryn, we stop in just to say hello, drop off a payment, or be weighed. It makes the facility something 'regular' something she's used to doing and someplace she's used to going.

I realize a vets office is different that a grooming salon, but you get my drift, don't you???? Slow down and give him time to read the scents associated with the place. It really might help.

(Must ask if this is strictly a grooming salon or if the salon is in a vets office????)

[mydiamond]

While I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of the groomers being too rough for Dime's liking, I wouldn't jump to conclusions either. My first husky absolutely HATED going to the vet. We've always been allowed to go in with the dogs, so I know it wasn't a case of him being hurt there. So I began to look at it from his point of view. New place, new smells and he's expected to go in, have the work done and leave. He never got the opportunity to 'know' what/who had been there and what happened to them. Couple that with the smell of death - from dogs/cats/etc. being put down at various times (realistically speaking here - death has a smell and canines can smell it. They may not know what actually happened, but they can differentiate the smells). Who wouldn't be fearful?

Look at it like visiting a hospital. YOU know you're going there to get better, but that doesn't mean that others haven't died there.

I found that with Bo, the best thing I could do was to arrive a few minutes early to allow him to take in all the scents permeating through the facility. It really calmed him.

With Ryn, we stop in just to say hello, drop off a payment, or be weighed. It makes the facility something 'regular' something she's used to doing and someplace she's used to going.

I realize a vets office is different that a grooming salon, but you get my drift, don't you???? Slow down and give him time to read the scents associated with the place. It really might help.

(Must ask if this is strictly a grooming salon or if the salon is in a vets office????)

no it's not in a vets office but it's half pet store. Thanks for this might annoy my mom but every time I want to buy a bag of treats or collar or whatever I'll try to bring him too so that he'll see the grooming salon as nothing "strange" or "scary" the fact that it's half pet store would help too IMO time to show him that this is the magical place where all those tasty treats come from

I have one itty bitty problem though: this grooming salon is rather far from my house. It requires a 15-20 minutes of car ride kinda hard to visit this place every other day but if I visit every single time I need something from the pet store would it help? I mean he's not going there every day or every week so it won't be a 'regular' place for him but if he visits the place so often.. would it help?

[Removed #5]

Kala, the old black lab who was my friend in fur for so many years and from whom I learned a lot about dogs was never fond of the vets. What I'd do with her was to take her like 1/2 hour early, give her a chance to go potty ( they had a walk out front ), smell all the strange smells, stand around out front talking with other pet owners (while she got a chance to "talk" with their dogs) and then we'd go in - normally just in time for our appt. There was one lady there who, I think, all the dogs loved and I'd try to see if she was available. (( Blondie, my spaniel mess who I also had at the same time was ready for the vets [or anything!] she didn't care - something different! ))

Just like you're desensitizing Diamond so you can work with his ears, you might want to try the same thing with visits to the vets. Just get the driver to take you and him for few "visits", doesn't mean you have to have anything done, let him learn to associate the vets as someplace where it doesn't always have to hurt.

[Austinville]

We don't go to the vets more than maybe once a month and Ryn understands that it's an ok place to be. She skips happily up the sidewalk (and she knows where they keep the treats) she gives the vet techs loves and then is ready to leave!

It's not that you visit three times a week, but more that you visit and nothing 'bad' happens.

[mydiamond]

Kala, the old black lab who was my friend in fur for so many years and from whom I learned a lot about dogs was never fond of the vets. What I'd do with her was to take her like 1/2 hour early, give her a chance to go potty ( they had a walk out front ), smell all the strange smells, stand around out front talking with other pet owners (while she got a chance to "talk" with their dogs) and then we'd go in - normally just in time for our appt. There was one lady there who, I think, all the dogs loved and I'd try to see if she was available. (( Blondie, my spaniel mess who I also had at the same time was ready for the vets [or anything!] she didn't care - something different! ))

Just like you're desensitizing Diamond so you can work with his ears, you might want to try the same thing with visits to the vets. Just get the driver to take you and him for few "visits", doesn't mean you have to have anything done, let him learn to associate the vets as someplace where it doesn't always have to hurt.

hmm I do let him potty for a few minutes before we actually go in.. Doesn't help much =\ probably because I rushed a bit. Would be so lovely if other dog owners would come up and talk to me all they do is standing from a distance, looking at Diamond with a suspicious look and ask "that dog doesn't bite does he" argh NO he does NOT x___x and this is just the grooming salon ( ) can't imagine taking him to a vets office so glad his vet does home visits

[Removed #5]

I used the same approach anyplace I take a dog inside; anyplace that's different - when I lived over toward Houston and would visit the PetSmart store we did the same thing before we went inside ... I wanted to give the animal with me a chance to relax with the surroundings before we went inside.

[persephona]

It is a strange behaviour indeed... but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion he is being mistreated. Mine absolutely hates baths. If we come back after a walk and want to get him in the tub to rinse of the mud and everything, he will just not budge. He won't even walk in the direction of the bathroom. When he is having his monthly bath though, as soon as the treats come out, he becomes the world's nicest dog ever and will not object to being handled (more or less rough in the tub). So the way I see it, when we don't have treats he is just acting up and making a fuss because he dislikes baths.

However, he dislikes vet visits as well. Admittedly, the vets there are rough and although I always carry treats with me, my efforts to create positive associations there have been met with a complete disregard by the staff, who are always impatient and look to finish the appointment in time, even if the dog is obviously scared. So yes, the handling there is quite rough and while he is fine in the waiting room and behaves like an angel there, as soon as we head to the consultation room, all hell breaks loose. I would say it's a very marked difference between this behaviour and what he does when he doesn't want a bath.

So in my limited experience, I would say that Dime just doesn't like to be bathed and sometimes is just acting up. I think that next time treats are due

[Austinville]

Afterthought: (!)

Daughter has a lhasa that gets groomed. She loved it there (until she got a different groomer - ONE time.) Now she's rather antsy when she goes until she 'knows' who the groomer is. The second groomer didn't hurt her, Daphnie just didn't care for her as much as she did the first. They are sensitive to those things.