Buying a second Husky

[s200rey]

I'm sorry if you thought I came across as angry! That wasn't me being angry - simply a little miffed at being called an idiot. No-one on here has ever seen me angry and isn't likely to. I save my anger for the breeders like the one you got your puppy from - the breeders that are slowly but surely destroying our wonderful breed. I understand completely why people like Kevin get defensive and think I am having a go at their much loved dogs, but I'm really not. Most of my energy goes into rescuing and rehoming such dogs - I'd hardly do that if I thought they were worthless! Similarly my Tahnee and Mia (both serious daddy's girls) would hardly have pride of place in our pack if I thought such a thing about them.

Put simply - it's not the dogs, it's the irresponsible, unethical breeders that I despise.

Unfortunately Kevin, the law will never make much difference. There will always be immoral chancers out there who will ignore the law to make a quick buck. The only way to make a lasting change (to anything) is education and if we can educate people away from irresponsible, unethical commercial breeders, their market (and they) would disappear.

Mick

Yeah, your far from an idiot Mick and there wasn't any need in that being said. Your previous posts had come across a little angry/negative though? hence why Kevin probably said what he said.

Like your saying, its not the dogs, its the irresponsible, unethical breeders. However, it is a vicious circle. Like if i'd of paid £350 for Bowe, as per his online 'advert' then I might as well of being saying to the man "keep breeding dogs for more puppies, to sell off for a quick return at 3-4weeks old, with belly's full of worms and no vet checks what so ever, cos its pointless doing anymore than you need to do, if there are buyers buying them like this" ...type of thing? which is totally irresponsible & unethical, as it conditions the breeder to do it more and more, time and time again, and that is what is causing this problem. If he thinks he's serving a demand, then he's hardly going to stop is he?...so I do agree with a lot of what you say, but it didn't need to come to this, on this thread? maybes lol.

Edited August 23, 2012 by s200rey

[Osinn11]

well....after reading through this I must admit it has my blood boiling a bit. I understand whats being said by all...but the message I got from a member a highly respect has me a little upset. That's all I'm going to say.

Sorry Calvin's Mommy for being a little off subject. but

I will love my Husky unconditionally every second of her life until the day I die!

[tracey8]

I respect everyone has a opinion but let's not forget why we are all here = because we all love our dogs regardless and that is what matters to me, maybe a good time to put this one to bed

[Kech]

Agreed!!

[s200rey]

well....after reading through this I must admit it has my blood boiling a bit. I understand whats being said by all...but the message I got from a member a highly respect has me a little upset. That's all I'm going to say.

Sorry Calvin's Mommy for being a little off subject. but

I will love my Husky unconditionally every second of her life until the day I die!

Fairplay, I will too, and Bowe hasn't got a single paper to her name, and came straight from a puppy farmer. Each to their own, I had my reasons for 'choosing' her.

I think all that needs to be voiced from the above is that its a 'Vicious Circle' buying a 'cheap puppy' from a breeder who couldn't care less about the breed. Giving them £££, is only making the problem bigger & bigger and surely EVERYONE here, doesn't want that. So why fund it? ya' get me.

Edited August 23, 2012 by s200rey

[LittleLuka]

i've stated it time and time again, I don't think you should have to spend over $1,000 to buy a quality dog. Luka was $600 and came with papers. He was already given his first round of shots, had been socialized, and i had to sign a contract to purchase him.

Bottom line is I'm never showing him or breeding him. If he isn't the highest quality to be perfectly honest i could seriously CARE LESS!

We all love our babies, no matter what.

[NicTurtle]

All of my dogs but one were bought or showing. I paid $800, $3000, $700, and $1300 for my dogs. All were from different breeders out of state and I paid shipping on top of that. When I had an accidental litter I sold the pups for $600 and I'll tell you that I would charge at least that much if I had another litter. Because I've now heard of people who buy the cheaper dogs and turn around and sell them for the $1000 price that I see on other breeder's sites. I looked at shelters and there were no huskies withing 3 hours of my house. Most shelters will not adopt out of their area (in CA anyway). I did see that some shelters were charging $500 for husky puppies in Southern CA. If I were to buy a non show dog/ pet quality I would be willing to pay up to $800 if I were buying from a reputable breeder who had health checks done.

Just my opinion. I know we all want to save money, but I have to agree that buying from BYB's encourages more bad behavior. I don't think any of us is saying a BYB dog is inferior, just that it could be prone to temperament and health issues and therefore its wiser to go with a reputable breeder. I will tell you this though, the two dogs I paid least for would probably make the best pair for breeding. The $3000 dog has some traits I would not want to pass on necessarily. So I'm not advocating spending that much money on a dog to guarantee quality. Her price was that high because of the Champions in her bloodline and the name on the breeders kennel. I think it comes down to you doing your research on the breeder and their dogs.

[calvinandmommy]

Ok first everybody that is going back and forth to each other trying to act all offended or whatever knock it off!!! I appreciate everybody putting in their opinion which is why I came to this forum to ask this question. I don't care to read everybody going back and forth with each other bickering though.

Now for everybody else who has put in an opinion thank you. I just started researching last night on breeders in Colorado. I found one that did not even list a price (not sure if that is normal) but they screamed backyard breeder. When we got Calvin the website seemed pretty reputable. She had pictures of the huskies playing and pictures of the kennels so I liked that. Before getting Calvin I had no idea that their were actual tests that you could have done to check for the eyes and the hips. My husband and I did a lot of research on several breeds before we picked husky and we still found nothing about the testing.

It is still a year away probably before we get another husky. What I think we will do though is keep looking at breeders in case one comes up with one that is a little older, keep looking at the two rescues around here, and keep looking on ad sites for people just pretty much trying to throw away their dog. I found a 6 month and a 3 month old on Craigslist the other day and if I could I would have got both of them. I feel bad for the dogs that people don't care who they go to. My husband and I go to a pet store in the mall every time we go to the mall but we refuse to buy from there. We asked out of curiosity once to see how much a husky cost their and they said almost $2000 after all the different fees. Plus we would never buy from this one because most of them are puppy mill dogs that look really sick. Which makes me even more sad.

[raindog]

There is a really good checklist from a US breeder which helps you distinguish a good breeder from a bad - http://www.kaylenbergsiberians.com/BreedersOnline.htm

Mick

[HuskyCouture]

a great many of them have said in the past that when they bought their first pup, they really didn't know what they were doing and that if they were to do it again they wouldn't buy a pup from the same breeder.

Mick

we're definitely one of those unfortunately. Embry came from my friends cousin, a BYB popping out 5-8 litters A YEAR! Our last puppy Ares, we rehomed at 5 months, we did find out he's from the same breeder as Embry, and as much as I didn't want to buy from the same breeder, we had to save him from his family.

[Bec]

I don't understand why pet owners feel that because they aren't showing or breeding their puppy, they don't deserve to have a healthy well bred pup.

The point of going to an ethical and reputable breeder is that you are giving yourself the best opportunity possible to get a well bred; healthy pup that is a good example of the breed and is going to be what you want in a dog. Going to a puppy farm or BYB is a gamble because you have no idea what you will end up with. Pet owners deserve to have well bred puppies, reputable breeders aren't there only to breed show quality pups, after all most of their pups will go to pet homes.

If you don't care about where your puppy has come from or how healthy it is or that you are giving yourself the best chance to have a healthy happy dog for 12-14 years why not go to a rescue? You'd still be taking a gamble but at least you'd be supporting a good cause and industry while saving an unwanted dog.

[SaraB]

Check out the Siberian Husky Club of America's website for info about what to look for in a breeder and about hips and eyes. There is also a list of breeders on the site too. Don't be afraid to e-mail the ones in your state and see if they or anyone they know has puppies: http://www.shca.org/

[Megan Heath]

I'm new here - but I am not new to Siberian Forums. I just don't post on this one.

But getting defensive about papered pups is unnecessary. Even papered pups can be bred unethically, because the AKC does nothing to monitor breeders. My suggestion is buy from a breeder that is part of the Siberian Husky Club of America and to be sure they are doing OFA/CERF testing. It is worth every penny, because health really is significantly better. A friend of mine, a very ethical breeder, just lost one of her huskies at 17, the youngest she has lost any others is 14. She does full health testing and produces fantastic dogs.

In Michigan, we have very fantastic husky kennels, including some of the best in the world. I got Cato from Karnovanda, a top kennel, and he only cost 800. Perhaps you should look around in other states for affordable pups?

[26nikita]

My first two were from BYB's. I didn't even know what that meant until I joined my first husky forum. So yes, I was very naive. Dakota, my first, was the love of my life and I lost him 4 years sooner than I should have. I too would have said, what's the harm? Hes healthy and has a wonderful temperament! I felt that way until he turned 10 years old and his bad breeding started to come out. He had his first seizure on Jan. 4th, 2011 and his last seizure on Nov 4th 2011 that killed him. In the midst of the seizures i found out he had hip displasia as well and would be in pain for the rest of his days. It killed me to see him suffer. This is just one possibility that you risk when you buy from a BYB and why so many are passionate about it. No one thinks your dog is inferior. They just want to stop the irresponsible breeding so no more dogs suffer. When your dog suffers, so do you.

Edited August 24, 2012 by 26nikita
Spelling

[calvinandmommy]

My first two were from BYB's. I didn't even know what that meant until I joined my first husky forum. So yes, I was very naive. Dakota, my first, was the love of my life and I lost him 4 years sooner than I should have. I too would have said, what's the harm? Hes healthy and has a wonderful temperament! I felt that way until he turned 10 years old and his bad breeding started to come out. He had his first seizure on Jan. 4th, 2010 and his last seizure on Nov 4th 2011 that killed him. In the mist of the seizures i found out he had hip displasia as well and would be in pain for the rest of his days. It killed me to see him suffer. This is just one possibility that you risk when you buy from a BYB and why so many are passionate about it. No one thinks your dog is inferior. They just want to stop the irresponsible breeding so no more dogs suffer. When your dog suffers, so do you.

I have not heard a personal experience till now of somebody buying from a byb and it turning out bad. Thank you for sharing your experience. Now I feel more apt to do even more research and find the right breeder. We are even thinking maybe a Lab puppy now too. Thankfully it will be probably a year before we get another dog lol.

[26nikita]

I have not heard a personal experience till now of somebody buying from a byb and it turning out bad. Thank you for sharing your experience. Now I feel more apt to do even more research and find the right breeder. We are even thinking maybe a Lab puppy now too. Thankfully it will be probably a year before we get another dog lol.

I think a lot of people feel that if a dog looks and acts healthy, then they are. That's why it's so important that whatever breed of dog you look into, is tested for the genetic diseases that breed is prone to. Some genetic issues don't show up until many years later. I just took in another husky 6 months ago from a private foster/rescue who rescued her from abusive owners. She was pregnant when she rescued her and she has ZRD. She should never have been bred! She has to take Zinc supplements for the rest of her life and she is only three. Good luck in your search Jennifer! You know that we will look forward to lots of pics!

[Osinn11]

There is a really good checklist from a US breeder which helps you distinguish a good breeder from a bad - http://www.kaylenbergsiberians.com/BreedersOnline.htm

Mick

Ahh Kaylenberg...they are here in Utah.

[Kech]

From someone living in an area considered to be the Capital of PuppyMills (Quebec, Canada), I do understand the importance of reputable breeders, but even they bend the law to their favor. I know of 3 instances of breeders(not Huskies)and their, so called, health guarantee where an owner of one of their pups after a period of 3-12 months have discovered a genetic defect. They then call the breeder for their help and all they offer is to replace the pup with another one. I don't know about you all, but after that amount of time an attachment is formed. All 3 owners decided to keep their (defective) pup. Anyone with a heart would not let go what they grew so attached to. It's not like exchanging a toaster. Someone here has to play the devil's advocate....

[26nikita]

Am ethical breeder does not continue to use the breeding pair that produces a pup with a genetic defect, as you put it. Gigi posted in page one that genetic defaults can skip generations. That's why the testing is so important. A puppy mill orBYB will continue to breed the same dogs that produced that pup where an ethical breeder won't. An ethical breeder will take there pups back because there are people out there that will give a dog back if it has a genetic default especially if it's going to cost them money. An ethical breeder does everything in their power to keep their pups out of shelters. Most BYB'S won't take a pup back and so the owners dump them in a shelter or worse. Yes most of us would not give up a dog because of a flaw but the amount of dogs in shelters shows you there are way more people out there that will. An ethical breeder would also have an interview process that will weed out people who won't take proper care of a dog. A ethical breeder will put restrictions on breeding one of their pups if you don't plan on showing that puppy to prevent useless breeding. It's important for people looking into getting a puppy to consider all of this before making a decision. Price has too much value when it shouldn't. A properly bred puppy with all the health testing required for their specific breed costs money not so the breeder can get rich but so their pups are the breed standard and healthy.

[Povodny]

Safi was sourced via the kennel club website, both her parents were owned by the breeder, both hip scored and eye checked with a good show history.

Some of the best veterinarians in Europe agree she had chronic liver failure from a young pup. We've managed to gain another year to add to her short life but having seen her decline rapidly over the last few weeks, even though she's managing another come back she is unlikely to reach double figures in age.

I followed the guidelines on getting a well bred puppy but unfortunately it hasn't given me what I hoped for. A healthy dog

[Sid&BellaNTX]

calvinandmommy- Check out www.shca.org for reputable breeders in CO. I contacted a breeder from there when I was looking for my first Husky. She didn't have any available but she referred me to another reputable(reputable breeders know other reputable breeders:)). That's how I ended up with Sid. When I buy from a breeder again, I'll go back to Si'd breeder. Breeders charge different amounts but there has been some good advice(sutsibe) already given about what to look for in a reputable breeder. Good luck in your search!

[raindog]

Nicola wrote:

Safi was sourced via the kennel club website, both her parents were owned by the breeder, both hip scored and eye checked with a good show history.

Some of the best veterinarians in Europe agree she had chronic liver failure from a young pup. We've managed to gain another year to add to her short life but having seen her decline rapidly over the last few weeks, even though she's managing another come back she is unlikely to reach double figures in age.

I followed the guidelines on getting a well bred puppy but unfortunately it hasn't given me what I hoped for. A healthy dog

The health testing that the KC recommends for each breed relates to the most common genetic issues that each particular breed may have. In Siberian Huskies, those are hip and eye problems. Even though they are the most prominent issues involving our breed, they are still mercifully rare. Other issues, like epilepsy, liver and kidney problems etc do occasionally occur as in any breed (or indeed in humans) but not often enough to be regarded as an issue to be flagged up within the breed. So, while your situation is tragic and we pray that your girl recovers, her situation should not be regarded as a failure of sensible puppy-buying guidelines. The only thing I would add is that obviously, if your girl's liver problems are found to be genetic in origin, then the parents should be removed from any future breeding plans and neutered.

I do know how you feel. A few years ago we had a baby puppy with major intestinal problems who had to be put to sleep at 12 weeks. We still miss her now!

Mick

Edited August 24, 2012 by raindog

[Kech]

Am ethical breeder does not continue to use the breeding pair that produces a pup with a genetic defect, as you put it. Gigi posted in page one that genetic defaults can skip generations. That's why the testing is so important. A puppy mill orBYB will continue to breed the same dogs that produced that pup where an ethical breeder won't. An ethical breeder will take there pups back because there are people out there that will give a dog back if it has a genetic default especially if it's going to cost them money. An ethical breeder does everything in their power to keep their pups out of shelters. Most BYB'S won't take a pup back and so the owners dump them in a shelter or worse. Yes most of us would not give up a dog because of a flaw but the amount of dogs in shelters shows you there are way more people out there that will. An ethical breeder would also have an interview process that will weed out people who won't take proper care of a dog. A ethical breeder will put restrictions on breeding one of their pups if you don't plan on showing that puppy to prevent useless breeding. It's important for people looking into getting a puppy to consider all of this before making a decision. Price has too much value when it shouldn't. A properly bred puppy with all the health testing required for their specific breed costs money not so the breeder can get rich but so their pups are the breed standard and healthy.

Let's be honest here. There are several reasons why someone dumps their dog at the shelter ranging from impulse buys, lack of knowledge about the breed, not having the financial resources to care for it to having health problems, owner health issues and so on. This occurs whether or not it's a registered breed. It's the owner that has to act responsibly whether registered breed or a mutt...

[simhauu]

Being the naive person I am, I bought Ghost from an online ad. I travelled for him by bus 5 hours. When the "breeders" showed him to me, I was so happy, I forgot to take a 50 euro bank paper off the money I had for him as his price was 150 euros. I realised that much later on the bus back which was due in 30 mins. I called the man and he said he'll send me the money if he has them because he didn't even check how much I gave him, and he sent it to me.

I wouldn't trade him for anything. I was telling myself, he's not like other owners, not an irresponsible one since he sent me my money back. S

ince he was small I thought his knee joints or something around them was a little bigger than normal but forgot to ask his vet every time about that. I didn't want to hear it was dysplasia which is untreatable. At 4 months we were invited to a husky event and we went. A responsible owner and breeder had worries same as me about his front legs. She called it rhachitis (when the bones turn around) as she's a doctor. So we started giving him more calcium.

Then after 3 weeks, Ghost had an accident and hit his hip very hard into a wardrobe and went to the vets. That was when my bf mentioned our worries about his front legs, and they x-rayed him. Instead of rhachitis they came to a conclusion that it most probably is dysplasia. At this time I contacted the owner with pics of Ghost and asked if they'd know of any chronic illness in their dogs or if they noticed something about their dogs and they should probably test them. He said, they don't know about anything and that their dogs are healthy (and to inform them of Ghost's recovery).

An x-ray for hips would cost around 60 euros because he'd have to be asleep for it to be taken. I don't have the money for that and if I did, I can tell you I am too scared to know the result. Every other 3 months Ghost is supposed to take joint nutrition (official price around 25 euros, cheaper from e-shops). When the math is done, he's going to cost us in his life about the same or even more in his whole life than what is paid for pups with papers. Plus his legs will probably hurt him very much when he's old.

What I wanted to say? Take your time, if you don't have the money, it's worth it. I who bought from irresponsible breeder will love my dog forever but at the same time I know he's up for hard times in the future and that breaks my heart. But hey, he loves water and that's good for his legs. And sorry for my long rant

[26nikita]

Let's be honest here. There are several reasons why someone dumps their dog at the shelter ranging from impulse buys, lack of knowledge about the breed, not having the financial resources to care for it to having health problems, owner health issues and so on. This occurs whether or not it's a registered breed. It's the owner that has to act responsibly whether registered breed or a mutt...

Lets be honest here and re-read what I posted about an ethical breeder having an interview process that HELPS weed out people who won't properly care for a dog. Will some still get through? Yes, but again, we are not talking perfection here, but prevention. The key thing is prevention! No system is perfect. Just educate yourself to make thebest possible decision. That's all anyone can ask.