Grrr....what a d**k!

[Elyse]

I seriously want to find out where this guy lives and kick him square in the nuts.

On my facebook husky group, there's this turkey who 'doesn't believe' in spaying and neutering. This is what he said exactly:

I wouldnt worry too much about it maite. We breed GSD and DOBIES before to br used in the military. Some bitches come in to heat very early or very late. And some who aren't breed will go in re heat as soon as or a week after it miss the original heat. I "think"its just mother nature making sure the next generation will be produced.

I for one is very against in spaying and neutering. Alot of believe thats its Healthier or make them behave better. When all it does is making sure that the male/female dog can no longer produced.

So I said:

Actually, Aspin, each time a female dog goes into heat, her risk of getting mammary, ovarian, vaginal cancer increases. And, if you neuter a boy, he doesn't have anymore risk of teticular cancer and has a lower risk of prostrate cancer. As for the behavioural thing, it does make a huge difference...especially for the males. There are so many unwanted and stray dogs as a redult of unwanted or accidental litters, many of which are euthanized, so quite frankly I'm appalled you're against spaying and neutering!

And then he said:

At elyse... i was waiting for someone to say that. If it was bad for them why are they born with it. When it comes to behaviour If anyone has ever been to dog parks. You'll see most dogs are fixed and they are the ones who are usually the problem. Theimbalance of hormones alone people should take into consideration that this has consequences in health and behaviour. Recent studies show that fix dog has a higher risk of getting ovarian or prostate cancer, obesity issues and so on. Would it be healthy for a 8 years old girl to be in menopause instead of her advance years?

I said:

All animals are born with reproductive organs, because that's how species work...by making babies. I can't believe I'm trying to explain this to you.

I go to the dog park all the time, and the dogs that cause fights all the time are the unneutered males (more testosterone).

Most problems at the dog park are from dominance, lack of socialization as a puppy and lack of training by the owner. The dominance, most of the time, is fixed by neutering.

Female dogs actually don't go into menopause. They can have litters until the day they die.

And I would love to see that link to back up your 'facts'.

He said:

The result of quantity of dogs/cats in the streets or shelter is not the dogs fault, but by people. If promoting spaying and neutering to control populations. Yes im for it. But to give me a reason that its healtheir or better for them. No thanks. Lack of nutrients and most of all lack of being the animal their supposed to be is the main cause of health and behaviour issaues. I dont work at the zoo. But if these spaying and neutering is healthier and supposedly will make animals better. I think tigers, lion, wolf, coyotes and so on would be spayed and neuter aswell.

Like...seriously? This is the same guy who tried to pressure me into putting Suka on a full raw diet, even though I explained again and again: a) I can't afford it. Suka's stomach can't tolerate a full raw diet, he gets the runs and the farts. c) He's on a diet to control his weight for his arthritis, so in order to keep him on that, I have to stay on kibble so I know exactly how much of everything he's getting. In meat, organs, etc...everything is variable and different.

If anyone wants to join me in my quest to neuter this guy so he doesn't reproduce, you're welcome to it!!

[Sid_Wolf]

guys sounds like a fool!

Keyu wont be getting spayed though, unless we need to for medical reasons (infection etc), she wont be bred but kira lost her shape completely when spayed even though her diet didnt change, and i dont want keyu to change

Also affected kiras coat, she seems to blow for like, 10 out of 12 months! Keyu hasnt blown for nearly a year!

[brian brown]

what group is this on facebook?

[HugTheBear]

Gr. What a jerk. Did he seriously say a female will go into a heat a week later if she didn't get any during her heat?

Wth. He sounds very uneducated and should not own a dog that is not fixed. That's ridiculous.

And BS. My Bulldog was a BEAST when we took him to the dog park before we had him neutered. He would pick fights with other males and knock them over to sit on them. And the dogs I normally see picking fights with others are the unneutered males. I wish we could find this guy and neuter him.

And wth at Dogs and menopause. Oh LAWDY LAWD !!

[Elyse]

what group is this on facebook?

It's my group, called Ontario Siberian Huskies.

I don't think its a good idea to kick him out of it just for a differing opinion, it would look bad on me...right?

[Elyse]

Gr. What a jerk. Did he seriously say a female will go into a heat a week later if she didn't get any during her heat?

Wth. He sounds very uneducated and should not own a dog that is not fixed. That's ridiculous.

And BS. My Bulldog was a BEAST when we took him to the dog park before we had him neutered. He would pick fights with other males and knock them over to sit on them. And the dogs I normally see picking fights with others are the unneutered males. I wish we could find this guy and neuter him.

And wth at Dogs and menopause. Oh LAWDY LAWD !!

To make it even worse: He's a trainer for the general public, and apparently he also trains dogs for the Red Cross and such.

[jmscott]

I have to say that we believe in later spays and neuters. We have the knowledge and training to handle intact animals and since we will be breeding, will have our share of them. There are health benefits to not altering an animal, the same as there are to doing it.

As for the overpopulation issue, well there are people on both sides of that one. Yes, there are many strays, however, it is also said that many shelters are importing dogs to keep shelters full. I do not have more information on that, however, the articles have quoted Petsmarts Rescue Waggin Program.

I know plenty of trainers who keep intact animals. It is a matter of responsible pet ownership. When our dogs come into heat we take the necessary precautions to ensure we do not have an unwanted litter.

Edited November 5, 2012 by jmscott

[Elyse]

I have to say that we believe in later spays and neuters. We have the knowledge and training to handle intact animals and since we will be breeding, will have our share of them. There are health benefits to not altering an animal, the same as there are to doing it.

Care to enlighten me what health benefits there are to not altering an animal? I already know spayed females can put on weight, but that's as much as I know.

[jmscott]

This is one article done by a breeder in response to the pushes to limit the number of intact bitches in a breeding program.

http://cynoanarchist.wordpress.com/2012/10/06/bitch-bitch-bitch-now-with-extra-snark/

Here is a good article about it

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/02/17/dangers-of-early-pet-spaying-or-neutering.aspx

pdf

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

[Elyse]

Interesting, I like the last link with the PDF.

But sometimes when he says 'increases the risk of' he doesn't say how MUCH it increases the risk of. It could be only 1 or 2%.

And the 2nd link you posted talks about early sterilization - what about if your dog is fixed later in life (like: over a year old, and way after puberty?)

[jmscott]

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/12/30/surgical-sterilization-could-reduce-your-pets-lifespan-by-over-30-percent.aspx

http://www.gpmcf.org/ovarianhome.html

[lebe03]

You can't argue with stupid so the best thing to do IMO is to ban him from your FB group

[Stranger]

i have no knowlegde in this subject. and am honest in that i have done no research.

I got my cats done because i cant control where they wonder.

I got my boys done because my previous dog got testi cancer, and he took longer to recover from the meds and surgery than my two boys would of from just having them removed before cancer had a chance.

It may be selfish that i did not research, but going on the little knowledge i had i wanted to remove something that was not "necessary" to prevent a could of been.

Again it comes down to lack of knowledge, lack of consistancy in information we are provided.

[Andy]

In your opening post he states that he breeds GSD's and Dobermans for the military.

So of course there is no reason for him to spay and neuter his animals they are nothing more than a source of income.

and. . . probably

They won't get to an age where the cancer issue is a problem for him because they will have gone past their effective breeding age

and be sold. abandoned or destroyed.

We have to get our heads around the fact that people like this see the dogs as a method to generate cash.

We see them as loved and cherished members of our extended family.

[flyingspanner]

How is it, that for a female animal, dog, cat or whatever, Vets tell us that Seasons raise the risk of Genital Cancers.

Yet in humans it's the actual sex act, particularly, in younger women that cause the very same cancers.

Studies show that girls who are active at a younger age are at an increased risk and yet Nuns who abstain very rarely get the same tumours, seeing as the reproductive system is the same in all mammals, with only the ovulation times being different.

Im not looking to start an argument, it's a genuine question.

[Storm Angel n Auroras Mum]

no idea nick lol

but I agree, to them dogs are "cash cows" not valuable members of the family.

[jmscott]

Usually the logic behind intact dogs being more prone to cancers of the reproductive organs is as simple as, "If organs are there, they can become cancerous; if they are not there, they cannot become cancerous."

[Mazz]

In your opening post he states that he breeds GSD's and Dobermans for the military.

So of course there is no reason for him to spay and neuter his animals they are nothing more than a source of income.

and. . . probably

They won't get to an age where the cancer issue is a problem for him because they will have gone past their effective breeding age

and be sold. abandoned or destroyed.

We have to get our heads around the fact that people like this see the dogs as a method to generate cash.

We see them as loved and cherished members of our extended family.

BINGO! [MENTION=1354]Andy[/MENTION], you've nailed it. Could not have stated it any better.

[sjwrx]

i just read that on the facebook page last night and shook my head

[Elyse]

How is it, that for a female animal, dog, cat or whatever, Vets tell us that Seasons raise the risk of Genital Cancers.

Yet in humans it's the actual sex act, particularly, in younger women that cause the very same cancers.

Studies show that girls who are active at a younger age are at an increased risk and yet Nuns who abstain very rarely get the same tumours, seeing as the reproductive system is the same in all mammals, with only the ovulation times being different.

Im not looking to start an argument, it's a genuine question.

I always thought it was because, in dogs, their heat cycle is more intense than when a human women get their period every month (women go into 'heat' too!)

In dogs:

Phase one is known as proestrus and is defined as a 10-day period where your female will spot or bleed from the vaginal area.

The next phase is estrus, which typically lasts five to nine days. During estrus, the dog is ovulating and very willing to accept a mate. Conception will take place during this time.

The third phase is diestrus, which lasts six to ten weeks. During this time, the female dog will experience hormonal changes and the uterine walls will thicken.

Anestrus, the fourth phase, lasts for about fifteen weeks. The dog will not experience any hormonal activity or produce milk during this time. The female will have no interest in mating during this phase.

[Elyse]

Elyse i know yoh dont know anything. And you want to be helpful. Those liscenced breeders your talking about in the ckc, akc, fci, or which ever kennel club youre reffering. They are called registered breeders. To be a liscenced breeder you dont sign up to the kennel club. But you register in the city as a business. You understand now. This is why you wont see a liscenced breeder under a business registry in the city because they will be paying more than what they will be making.

Okay, that's it. If he insults me one more time, I'm going to kick his pathetic ass and beat him to a bloody pulp.

I've been more than patient and understanding, and this is just a waste of my time.

I've ran out of ways to insult him in my mind and I've ran out of swear words. I've never known somebody to be this...this...I can't even think of a word of how he's been. It's like he's reinventing the definitions of annoying, jerk, BYB, and troll simultaneously.

EDIT:

Ah, it's feels so good to use the ban hammer.

Edited November 5, 2012 by SolitaryHowl

[sjwrx]

aww banned already! lol

But yea he is a stuck up one minded jerk, Thank God i did not consider getting my raw off him.

Just because he is a "dog trainer & breeds dogs for the military" he's gotten on the high horse.

[jmscott]

Breeders do have to have a business license, even those that spend more than they make. Because anything over something like 1k has to be reported to the government for tax purposes. So if I were to sell one performance/show quality puppy at $1200, it is taxable dollars. This is inconvenient, but it also means that expenses such as food, show entry fees, and boarding fees are tax deductible at the end of the year.

I wouldn't say you don't know anything, that was just rude. The ins and outs of breeding can be a very complex and pointless mess to try to figure out for the people who have no want or plans to breed their dogs.

Edited November 5, 2012 by jmscott

[jmscott]

what country is he from? I read a lot of posts from the middle east and central asia where the people tend to speak like that.

[Elyse]

Unfortunately breeding of dogs isn't regulated here. I know a lot of BYBs only take cash...because that way there's no paper trail and therefore no taxes have to be paid.

I do agree some of the information he posted was correct, and he even directed me to an article where I learned a lot about the risks and cons associated with fixing (the same article I was directed to on here.)

But, his attitude, the way he insulted me and others, and the way he continuously tries to force his 'facts' and raw products down our throats...he had to go for my sanity. I feel so much better now.

EDIT: Apparently he's from Canada...in Toronto.

By the way he speaks and having grammar so bad even I can't read it (and I'm used to reading bad grammar on facebook...) I'd say he's either an immigrant that just came over or he's from the middle east or Nigeria or something. I was half expecting him to tell me I won the lottery, and that all I needed to do was send over my credit card info for the $ transfer...

He sells his 'raw products' apparently all over Ontario, has no website, and Google doesn't bring up any information about his training or his raw 'company'.

EDIT 2: Apparently he's advertising his 'training' on Kijiji before (free). This is all I could get, because the ad isn't there anymore. I got what I could from Google's cache.

ASPIN K9 OFFERS OFFERS THE FOLLOWING PUPPY TRAINING HOUSEBREAKING BASICE, ADVANCE AND COMPETITVE OBEDIENCE TRACKING SCENT POINTING SEARCH AND RESCUESE SHUTZHUND PERSONAL PROTECTION YOU WILL LEARN HOW TO....

[cut off]

So yeah, I'm totally leaning towards the Nigeria idea.

Edited November 5, 2012 by SolitaryHowl