Elections 2012

[jmscott]

So who else is holding their breath in front of the TV and scared to death if either candidate wins?

[jmscott]

So far I have four progress maps up

1)107 -160

2)163 - 163

3)148 - 159

4)123 - 153

[Removed #5]

So far I'm underimpressed!!!

And getting to be less impressed as the night goes on ..... quite admittedly I don't want another four years of soaring Obama deficits; I also don't really like the unknown of Romney ... devils choice!!!

But I think this is the election that will put the electoral college on notice --- Romney has had the lead in the popular vote for most of the evening.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Al Jones

[Elyse]

I'll tell you that up in Canada, most of us prefer Obama. And for good reasons, but I'm not going to get into that...

EDIT: I just read it on the news, Obama won the election. It was a close call...

Edited November 7, 2012 by SolitaryHowl

[calvinandmommy]

Well according to my Facebook timeline thingy a lot of people are moving to Canada lol, a lot of people are very racist, and a lot of people are going to lose their jobs for some reason. I did not vote so I really have no opinion.

But apparently Colorado is the first state to legalize marijuana .

Hey look a dancing penguin.....

[Elyse]

(Oh no! lol)

I don't know how people are going to lose their jobs - Obama was/is creating more jobs. He kept his promise to the troops and are bringing them home. He and his government brought down Osama Bin Laden. Have they (Americans) all forgotten about those things?

It wasn't Obama's fault the U.S's economy took a crap. The economy was a ticking time-bomb, we all saw it up here in Canada...why didn't any of you???

[calvinandmommy]

(Oh no! lol)

I don't know how people are going to lose their jobs - Obama was/is creating more jobs. He kept his promise to the troops and are bringing them home. He and his government brought down Osama Bin Laden. Have they (Americans) all forgotten about those things?

It wasn't Obama's fault the U.S's economy took a crap. The economy was a ticking time-bomb, we all saw it up here in Canada...why didn't any of you???

Because we live here. Not trying to be mean but I think people get a better view from the outside. I totally agree with you though. If I were to move anywhere it would be England lol.

[Elyse]

And get all of their FUN rainy/overcast/anything but sunny days? (Or is it just for all the husky meets!?)

Haha - no offense taken. I think I'm going to stop posting on this thread, or maybe tread more lightly, as I know politics is a sensitive subject for everyone. I don't want to start a flame war or anything, although now that the elections are over it shouldn't matter all that much anymore...??

I will say one more thing though. Throughout the election I've noticed Romney has been changing his views drastically. He changed almost half of his whole platform ($$ from the oil companies, me thinks) drastically, and claimed his beliefs changed (apparently overnight!). Hah! The only beliefs/religion of any politician, no matter what colours/flags they fly, will always be money.

[jmscott]

Oh and if you want a pair of snazzy shoes, these can be bought on cafepress

Trust me. Even the people i know who are voting for him know where he stands (sits? nm, definitely stands...or sits).

[HuskyMom09]

1) most of those 'jobs' created were in companies that flopped before his first term was served, but that was kept hush-hush. The reason unemployment numbers went down was largely in part due to people being unemployed so long they fell off the eligibility list for unemployment benefits. 2) they didn't bring our troops home, they shifted them from Iraq to Afghanistan putting our men further in harms way. My own brother was involved in a green on blue shooting because it is our 'responsibility' to teach them to fight their own war? Oh that back fired when they turned on those who were training them. My baby brother did not deserve to get shot or lose his friends. He will be re-deployed as soon as his leave is up. That is not what was promised. 3) Seal team 6 brought down Osama Bin Laden, not Obama....then the Obama administration outed the Seal Team members ultimately causing their deaths, then sat by idly while our own consulate fell under attack and denied requests for more security and military assistance in their time of need, letting more Americans die needlessly. NOT at all what was 'promised' 4 years ago, but we still fall for the lines. I guess handouts are the important things to us these days.

[BlueWolf]

I'll tell you that up in Canada, most of us prefer Obama. And for good reasons, but I'm not going to get into that...

EDIT: I just read it on the news, Obama won the election. It was a close call...

It's not just Canada http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20008687

Edited November 7, 2012 by BlueWolf

[Mobezilla]

(Oh no! lol)

I don't know how people are going to lose their jobs - Obama was/is creating more jobs. He kept his promise to the troops and are bringing them home. He and his government brought down Osama Bin Laden. Have they (Americans) all forgotten about those things?

It wasn't Obama's fault the U.S's economy took a crap. The economy was a ticking time-bomb, we all saw it up here in Canada...why didn't any of you???

So agree.. I think people just want someone to blame when everything falls through and don't understand that its not something that will suddenly happen because of one person...

[Elyse]

I know!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the U.S president doesn't have all of the power/authority to do things right? Of course he has quite a bit being the president, but he doesn't have all of it. Doesn't the senate pass bills and laws and do other things the president himself can't do? I think I read somewhere its to prevent corruption, so if the president decides to go batshit crazy someday, the senate/vice-president can just kick him out?

Like, I don't understand why some people are angry that Obama didn't bring the troops home like he said he would 4 years ago. I don't think that's entirely his decision to make, isn't that the secretary of defense's choice?

The whole country can't be fixed by 1 man in 4 years (especially one where it was so close to a depression), anybody who believes that is just kidding themselves. There's a whole bunch of loops they have to jump through to get things done, passed, and approved...right?

(I bet Obama's senate didn't approve of him bringing the troops home because of oil/terrorism/nuclear threat? And, on another related note, I heard Obama brought them home for Christmas one year.).

Sorry if I'm wrong on any/all of this. I don't know much about U.S politics, I just pick up snippets of what I hear about it on the news.

[jmscott]

The Commander and Chief has a lot of push, but you are right, he can't just do whatever he wants. That's been some of the problems with his first term. Every time he tried to introduce jobs he was blocked by Republicans. In fact the two party system is a big problem here. They roadblock each other just to get election votes. This years election was more about voting against a candidate than for a candidate.

A lot of people aren't acknowledging what a pile he inherited, or the fact that Bill Clinton, who will probably be added to the history books as one of our greatest presidents, also had a bad first term but then turned it around and gave us our first surplus in decades.

But all that is pretty irrelevant now. Just need to keep our thoughts on the positive and hope for the best. Same as with any new president.

Edited November 8, 2012 by jmscott

[Removed #5]

I think that what a lot of us here are concerned with is that more and more of the laws are being made by presidential fiat. (( Can't remember the correct phrase )) Then of course there's the NDAA which allows him to use US forces INSIDE the US against US citizens.

The cost of the wars has been kept out of the budget which means that neither we nor the average politician are able to see it except after the fact. Sorry, but there is too much being done behind closed doors that should not be, that doesn't need to be. But I'm dragging this discussion in another direction so I'll stop here ....

Last comment - for the historians in the crowd, it seems all too easy to draw parallels between Germany in the 1920's and 30's and the US of today ... it's more than a bit scarey to this old timer.

[Elyse]

[MENTION=5355]Al Jones[/MENTION]

Is this a presidential fiat?

an official order given by someone in a position of authority, without considering what other people want

And the NDAA, where the president can use U.S forces against U.S citizens... isn't that a good thing? To prevent a civil rebellion that could potentially cost millions of innocent lives?

Sometimes they bring in the military for really bad riots over here when the police/riot squad can't handle it (our military doesn't have much to do. LOL), so you're saying the military should stay out of it and let innocent people get killed and property damaged by rioters?

Sorry if I sound offensive or anything, like I said before, I don't really understand U.S politics so I'm trying to learn more.

[jmscott]

Our country was founded by people who's leaders were using their own forces on their own citizens. Lets just say it is a touchy subject when government gets too involved in everything.

Oh, and it is our constitutional right to form a militia.

[h=3]Natural Rights:[/h]The classic definition of "natural rights" are "life, liberty, and property", but these need to be expanded somewhat. They are rights of "personhood", not "citizenship". These rights are not all equally basic, but form a hierarchy of derivation, with those listed later being generally derived from those listed earlier.

[h=3]Personal Security (Life):[/h]

(1) Not to be killed.

(2) Not to be injured or abused.

[h=3]Personal Liberty:[/h]

(3) To move freely.

(4) To assemble peaceably.

(5) To keep and bear arms.[18]

(6) To assemble in an independent well-disciplined[13] militia.

(7) To communicate with the world.

(8) To express or publish one's opinions or those of others.

(9) To practice one's religion.

(10) To be secure in one's person, house, papers, vehicle[14], and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures.

(11) To enjoy privacy in all matters in which the rights of others are not violated.[7]

Edited November 8, 2012 by jmscott

[Removed #5]

@Al Jones

Is this a presidential fiat?

Actually the phrase I was looking for was "executive order".

And the NDAA, where the president can use U.S forces against U.S citizens... isn't that a good thing? To prevent a civil rebellion that could potentially cost millions of innocent lives?

As [MENTION=8127]jmscott[/MENTION] says, it was the open rebellion against you Brits a couple of hundred years ago that gave us the start of the US. As a people, I think I can say, that we're more protective of our personal rights than most. And again, very personally, if the populace has reached the point that there is open, organized rebellion then, in my opinion, the government has failed and needs to be replaced.

Sometimes they bring in the military for really bad riots over here when the police/riot squad can't handle it (our military doesn't have much to do. LOL), so you're saying the military should stay out of it and let innocent people get killed and property damaged by rioters?

I'm no fond friend of sex offenders, but there are laws in place now that allow us to confine them at the end of their court given sentences - literally for the rest of their lives with no ability to appeal. That law has been considered appropriate and has been given credence to be used for other "select" groups of people (the very "anarchists" you spoke of earlier), "violent" drug dealers. In Germany the first laws were against "social undesirables", the Romany, gays, sex offenders, etc. Personally, I find the types of laws thht are being enacted now to be a *very* slippery slope. If someone violates a law, goes to court, is found guilty and sentenced - I, in a country of courts and laws, feel that when the sentence is completed that should be the end of it.

Sorry if I sound offensive or anything, like I said before, I don't really understand U.S politics so I'm trying to learn more.

Not offensive in the slightest. The problem as I see it is that way too many of our own population "don't really understand U.S. politics". Our beloved Bush (the second), as president, signed into law the ability for the president to declare martial law without consultation, to disband Congress and in fact, declare himself tyrant until *he* determines that the crisis is over. Again, in my opinion, we are opening a can of worms that may be used against us and, to me, that is a very concerning issue.

[Elyse]

(I'm not a Brit, why do people mistake me for a Brit on here? I'm just a lowly Canadian. LOL)

Thanks for the enlightenment guys, I didn't know most about what you two said. I knew about the American Revolution, but I didn't know about the other stuff. Especially about your constitutional right to form a militia.

[LittleLuka]

The thing that makes me the most sad about this election is not the fact that Obama won but that I now live in a country that has completely rejected the values that we were founded on. Our morals, religions, and work ethics have gone out the window. Where do we go from here? Are we doomed to be a country that depends on everyone but ourselves?

[MENTION=8127]jmscott[/MENTION] "Our country was founded by people who's leaders were using their own forces on their own citizens. Lets just say it is a touchy subject when government gets too involved in everything."

Touchy subject when government gets too involved in everything?! That's exactly what Obama is for. We're on a quick path to the government providing everything for this country. We can't get ENOUGH of the free handouts. Now we can rely on the government for healthcare, foodstamps, housing, education, etc. What happened about working hard to provide these things for ourselves?

I'm sorry, I don't think Obama can move mountains nor could any other candidate but I also don't believe we should keep allowing our citizens to be helpless and depend solely on the government. Tell me, what's the point in getting a job if you can have everything you want for free? I find it literally outrageous that you're okay with giving your hard earned dollars to lazy people.

It's fine though. Our system is on a steady decline just like a few other countries in Europe. We're going to tax the hell out of the upperclass till we literally make them leave our country and go somewhere like the Cayman Islands. We're going to reach a point where we will never elect someone in office that doesn't support a providing government because the majority of our population wouldn't be able to survive without the government!

Sorry but I for one will continue to work my butt off to support myself and continue to be irate when i see people abusing the system. In all honesty, I'm not sure where you live but when you live in a city like Memphis, TN it really changes things. People can afford an iphone5 and to get their nails done but can't find a job. Yeah, right.

Edited November 8, 2012 by LittleLuka

[LittleLuka]

Regardless the election is over and i'm honestly over hearing about it.

Edited November 8, 2012 by LittleLuka

[Elyse]

I'm tired of hearing about it too and I'm glad its over. It was flooding the news up here, interrupting/cancelling TV shows for the debates, etc.

Regardless, I hope Obama can help to solve the U.S's problems for these next 4 years.

I heard on the news last night Obama won because he got the majority of the Latino, African American, women, and other 'minority' votes. The republican's main voting crowd is shrinking (the normal/classic american 'white man' the news said) and said the republicans have some thinking to do if they want to win another election.

Also, they said because of the republicans having a minority government there might be another political gridlock like there was the last time.

(I also heard about Florida and their voting problems, they claimed its because they "didn't expect people to come out and vote." I LOLed, that's what an election is for!)

Edited November 8, 2012 by SolitaryHowl

[LittleLuka]

Regardless the election is over and i'm honestly over hearing about it.

I'm tired of hearing about it too and I'm glad its over. It was flooding the news up here, interrupting/cancelling TV shows for the debates, etc.

Regardless, I hope Obama can help to solve the U.S's problems for these next 4 years.

I heard on the news last night Obama won because he got the majority of the Latino, African American, women, and other 'minority' votes. The republican's main voting crowd is shrinking (the normal/classic american 'white man' the news said) and said the republicans have some thinking to do if they want to win another election.

Also, they said because of the republicans having a minority government there might be another political gridlock like there was the last time.

(I also heard about Florida and their voting problems, they claimed its because they "didn't expect people to come out and vote." I LOLed, that's what an election is for!)

He gained more women's approval in swing states not the country as a whole. He def. received the majority of the minority votes (which by the way they're quickly on the way to not being the minority)

[Elyse]

Sorry but, what's a 'swing state'?

Yeah, I heard about that too...that the 'minority' is quickly becoming a majority of the population.

Personally, if I were in the states I would be siding towards the Democrats. They remind me of the Liberal Party in Canada, and the Republicans remind me of the Conservative Party of Canada. (Which, by the way, our current prime minister is a Conservative and I hate his guts. He's such a tool.)

Besides, the Conservatives over here have done so much to hamper Canada's potential. Cancelled the Avro Arrow program, scrapped all of our jet and moon lander programs and plans, sold Alaska for a measly few million, allowed our workers for Avro to go over to the states to work for NASA, and etc. If I could find Diefenbaker's grave, I would destroy the tombstone.

Personally, I think the U.S needs another party or two, because I think the 2 parties right now are major extremes of each other. It doesn't help the voter, especially if they don't like either of the candidates. At least, over here, you can vote for the NDP or the Green party instead of not voting at all. (NDP is more for worker's rights and unions, but the last time they won the election the country took a crap. The 'Green' party is all about legalizing pot, and gets only 5% of the country's total votes every federal election... but they didn't even get a seat in the house of commons (sort of like your senate) this time.

Edited November 8, 2012 by SolitaryHowl

[LittleLuka]

Sorry but, what's a 'swing state'?

Yeah, I heard about that too...that the 'minority' is quickly becoming a majority of the population.

Personally, if I were in the states I would be siding towards the Democrats. They remind me of the Liberal Party in Canada, and the Republicans remind me of the Conservative Party of Canada. (Which, by the way, our current prime minister is a Conservative and I hate his guts. He's such a tool.)

Besides, the Conservatives over here have done so much to hamper Canada's potential. Cancelled the Avro Arrow program, scrapped all of our jet and moon lander programs and plans, sold Alaska for a measly few million, allowed our workers for Avro to go over to the states to work for NASA, and etc. If I could find Diefenbaker's grave, I would destroy the tombstone.

Personally, I think the U.S needs another party or two, because I think the 2 parties right now are major extremes of each other. It doesn't help the voter, especially if they don't like either of the candidates. At least, over here, you can vote for the NDP or the Green party instead of not voting at all. (NDP is more for worker's rights and unions, but the last time they won the election the country took a crap. The 'Green' party is all about legalizing pot, and gets only 5% of the country's total votes every federal election... but they didn't even get a seat in the house of commons (sort of like your senate) this time.

okay out of all the states there are some that always go republican. MS, TN, AR, southern states basically... Then there are some that always go democrat. MA, NY, NJ, northern states basically. Then there are swing states which could vote either way OH, FL, NV, etc.

I feel the exact opposite, i could never vote for such a liberal party. You have to understand by growing up in the south that Democrats are against everything i was raised up by. Sometimes i feel like our country is still so separated and i'm not sure it will ever change. I do agree that there should be more than 2 major parties but highly doubtful that will ever happen. As a member of the republican party i do agree that we will have to loosen up on social issues or we're never going to win again. The world is a different place now, people don't care about right vs. wrong just what's easier.