The tale of the puppy that doesn't poop (except when he does)

[Sascha]

The gist of my problem is this: My 8 week old Sibe poops about once every 12-15 hours.

Update: My 11 week old Sibe poops like a champ

To anybody who stumbles over this thread with similar concerns, let me tell you that everybody who replied was right, just give it some time. During the second week he started adapting to his new home and the schedule, first by regularly peeing every time I took him out, and then shortly the rest followed. Now it's pretty much like I read everywhere, after long naps, eating, or play time I take him out and he does his business, and he gets some potty breaks in between as well. All is good now!

[End of Update, original post below...]

The long story is this:

We happily picked up our brand new Siberian Husky puppy last Friday, and I've been staying home with him for potty training, housebreaking, bonding etc. After doing a lot of reading and talking to other dog owners and trainers we decided that crate-training seemed like the best way to go, and got him a nice wire-crate with divider that gives him just the right amount of space. I also found some puppy schedules here on this forum as well as other websites that seemed to work well for people, and I've been trying out that schedule since then.

The schedule looks like this:

7am - Potty break

8:30am - Breakfast and potty break

10:30am - Water and Potty break

12:30pm - Lunch and potty break

3:00pm - Water and potty break

6:00pm - Dinner and potty break

7:30pm - Potty break

10:00pm - Potty break

1am - Potty break

4am - Potty break

Per the advice that I've been given I reward him if he does pee and poo with treats as well as play and running around in the backyard etc. If he doesn't pee or poo he doesn't get a treat and goes back in the crate. By the way, our potty area is a designated place in the backyard.

The biggest issue is that on most of these scheduled times he does nothing, he doesn't want to pee or poop, instead he will just settle by my feet and hang out even to the point where when his potty time is up (10 minutes max) he won't get up to take him back to the crate, I have to lure him with a treat to get him to move. Sometimes I try making him walk around the backyard (on leash) for a bit to get his bowels moving so he will do his business, but it rarely works. Despite this he has managed to pee on the kitchen floor inside multiple times as soon as we get back in the house even after giving him much more than 10 minutes.

I know accidents happen especially during early housebreaking, but I feel that he gets enough opportunities and time that there is no reason why it should happen like this. Everybody keeps telling me that after he wakes up from a nap or after play or eating he needs to eliminate, but in reality neither is the case. He will easily go for 5-8 hours after eating and drinking lots of water before anything comes out of him.

His poop schedule is even worse. So far he has barely pooped more than once a day, and that one time is very hard to predict. One day it was in the morning, the next day in the afternoon, and today it was at 1am when I came to check on him, he had already gone in his crate and smeared it everywhere

Because of his infrequent pooping I have deviated from the schedule and would play with him and run around for a long time just so he would poop, but it's just not happening. Eventually he'll get tired or doesn't want to play anymore and just sleep instead.

You might ask what kind of diet he is on, it's just the regular Hill's Science Diet for puppies kibble which he eats fine three times a day, and he doesn't show any signs of being constipated or uncomfortable.

It's frustrating because he wants to play during the day and I want to play with him but keep putting him back in the crate without play time because play is supposed to be the reward for eliminating. It's double frustrating because despite his infrequent peeing and pooping he's had more accidents inside the house than doing it outside. Even though I'm close to him pretty much all day all of a sudden I'll come back from the kitchen and it happened without him making a whole lot of fuss or anything.

It's not that he never starts whining or howling or getting restless in the crate. I have repeatedly taken him outside in between scheduled potty breaks thinking that maybe I didn't give him enough time, or maybe walking back into the house was just enough that now he does need to go, but when we get back outside he'll either just lay down and try to sleep or bring me one of his toys to play. I think there was one instance where he actually pooped immediately after getting outside, and that was after not pooping for over 12 hours. I was very relieved when he finally did, and rewarded him lavishly.

I don't expect any magical solutions to any of this, most of you might tell me to just give it time, it's been less than a week since he came home and he is still getting used to the environment etc. but at least I get to vent my frustration a bit. Spending almost an hour cleaning poop out of his bed at 1am after not getting a lot of sleep for several days does that to you

Of course I'm still hoping that someone actually had the patience to read through all this and maybe even knows a trick or two to help turn things around. The last thing I was expecting to happen is complaining about not enough poop. Everybody was preparing me for a little poop machine, and right now I'd rather have that than what I'm dealing with now.

By the way and as a last comment I am taking him to the vet tomorrow for his first check-up and also to make sure that there isn't a medical reason he is so far off his poop schedule. At this point I've actually grown quite concerned that something might be wrong, hopefully the vet will put those fears to rest.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Sascha
Problem solved :-)

[Leyka&Diva]

when we first brought leyka home she didnt poop very often but after a week or 2 she started pooping more regularly and as for the sitting around your feet when you take him out for potty time sound just like leyka as well id say hes still settling in and once he feel comfortable he will be ok xx

[Devildust76]

Wow. That was a lot of reading The only schedule we used for Kodiak was the after food, drink and play rule. We've never crated him but thats just our personal view and a size issue. He obviously had 'accidents' in the house and we did try using puppy pads just so, if was going to go in the house, he'd use the same spot. This worked for all of a day then it was back to square one! We were very lucky and Kodiak only ever pooped in the house once but the weeing did take ages to get right. It was more of a case of noticing his signs and knowing when to put him outside.

It really does take a little time and perseverance and eventually it will click into place for you and him. I would definitely speak to the vet about the apparent lack of poop and they may suggest a change in diet, although I don't know how that might help

The main thing I have learnt since we got Kodi is that Mal's and Huskies are unlike any other breeds of dog I've known and the 'rules' don't necessarily apply. What works for one may not work for another. I totally understand about the lack of sleep too but, again, this gets better in time too.

Have you thought of trying the puppy pads? It could work as a training aid for a little while. It might encourage him to go in a certain spot. I'm sorry that I don't have any better advice for you but it really does get better and you've only had him home for a week so he is probably still settling in and getting used to his new surroundings.

Hope the vet trip goes ok. Let us know what they advise. Good Luck

[Sarah]

cleaning up poop at 1am is not fun - remember those days well.

You are doing all you can first off so dont beat yourself up - pups take time to get to understand the rights and wrongs of pooping

Praising as you are doing is great - just ignore if he does go in the house

Perseverance is the best tool you can use - he WILL get there, and no it's not easy and i feel your pain

posting up pics might help you feel better :D

[Devildust76]

Not of the poop though

[Sarah]

Not of the poop though

PMSL!!!!

noooooooo thank you

[Erinc]

Hmm,

I wouldn't recommend using his crate as a way of punishment & fresh water should be available to your puppy at all times. They can get dehydrated very quickly! Continue feeding him 3 times a day if his poo is coming out fine (when he does go), if his stools start going soft, feed him 4 times a day.

Now.. with house training...

Take him outside after every nap, drink, meal, play. Keep him on his lead and walk him around until he pees or poops, its not playtime, he doesn't need to be off his lead, its potty time. This may take 5minutes, 15minutes or half hour... maybe he doesn't like going in his designated area, how big is your back yard? I used to take Luka out front before he had his vaccinations, we wouldn't have to walk more than 25 meters before he eliminated and then it was straight back inside, every time we walked that same 25 meters, many times a day, he would go somewhere different, sometimes though, he liked a certain spot and for a few days I knew where he was going to poo or pee, but then he would avoid that same spot for the next few weeks! Simply because they are picky with where they go.

Obviously when he goes, you treat him and make a big fuss about it, if you catch him going indoors, pick him up and carry him outside, let him finish off, or wait till he starts to go again and praise him. At first, you don't want to tell him NO for going inside, you don't want him to think going is bad, once you've managed to praise him for going outside a few times, you can start telling him NO as you pick him up and take him out.

If your pup is only 8weeks, i'm assuming you've only had him a few days, so be patient, it takes time!

Hope this helps, its pretty much just what I did with mine.

Good Luck

[Kissu & Aara]

I had a similar problem with Kissu when he was a pup. In the winter it was such a pain.

He didn't like going in the backyard. No idea why. He'd play there, wasn't afraid. We didn't put any pesticides either.

He'd only go in two places... right behind me as I closed the door from coming inside, or on walks. So until he was potty trained, I'd get up after a few hours of sleep and take him for small walks in the neighborhood. Even at 3am...

When he was finally potty trained, I would load him up with water. We would play, he'd get water, play some more, get water. Then he'd let me know he needed to potty, and it was obviously an urgent need. So I'd open the back door and he would zoom out.

Not the best way of handling it, but it did work!

Edit: just to add more. I did have him on a leash in the backyard. If he wasn't on the leash, he would play and never come in, and still never potty. So I waited outside in the winter for him to potty- waited an hour and a half one time. I was tired from little sleep, and freezing.

I gave up and we went back in. I turned around from closing the door, and he was peeing. So I threw the door open and scooted his bum out the door.

Which he then stopped once outside and looked at me as if to say, "What's your problem??"

And I knew he had more. So I waited 30 mins, and nothing. That's when it occurred to me he only pottied during walks.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

Edited November 7, 2012 by Kissu & Aara

[Robinhuskylover2231]

Everyone above gave great advice, I would just like to add that I would not recommend using puppy pads. They teach the puppy that it is okay to go in the house which in the end makes potty training take much longer. As said above do not let potty time be play time. It is strictly for doing their business! Lots and lots of praise and treats when your puppy does go outside. Accidents are going to happen as a puppy cannot hold their bladder that long. Continue to take out after play, sleep, eating, drinking as you were even if you think it is not doing anything. Also I wouldn't use the crate training specifically for potty training. As said above, puppies need access to water and food throughout the day- they also need plenty of human socialization in the early stages of their life that they are not going to get while in the crate. I would use the crate at night for sleeping in- hopefully with you getting up every couple hours and taking him out he will not want to go potty in his cage. Also, when you go out would be the only other time I would leave him in his crate. Remember, he needs your love and socialization. Learn to recognize his signals of when he has to go and set him up for success- which is what you are doing by taking him out after sleeping, eating, drinking, playing etc. Good luck to you and remember it takes consistency and patience but it's worth it when it's done

[Sascha]

Thanks everybody for the thoughtful responses, it really helps to know I'm not the only one who struggled with this.

To add a small success story, when I took him outside at 7am this morning he did pee and poop in the right spot, and I heaped praise and rewards on him!

Several responses suggested that he is more likely to go after walking around for a while, but I was specifically advised against doing that because it can make him want to hold it longer to make the walk last longer. Instead he is supposed to learn that first he needs to eliminate and then he gets a nice long walk/play time as reward.

Also, I don't use the crate as punishment, and when he is in the crate he is not alone, I'm usually still around him. I just want him to feel comfortable being in the crate for shorter periods of time, and he is less likely to eliminate in the house in his sleeping area. Gradually I will let him roam the house over time, but I need to know he is a little better trained right now, also in terms of chewing and biting stuff. His crate has chew toys that he likes and can let all his chewing instincts out on instead of my shoes or other stuff. And the reason I don't put water in his crate is so he doesn't knock it over and I don't know when he actually peed in the crate. Every time I take him out of the crate he gets plenty of water, and also when we're outside. Of course I don't want to dehydrate him!

I'll report on how he progresses over time, until I have to change the title to the Tale of the Puppy that won't stop pooping

[Devildust76]

Everyone above gave great advice, I would just like to add that I would not recommend using puppy pads. They teach the puppy that it is okay to go in the house which in the end makes potty training take much longer.

I would like to add that I didn't actually say to use them in the house We tried that for all of a day an it got us nowhere! They were very useful for mopping any of Kodi's 'accidents' up though My thinking was more that if you had a specific place outside that you had designated as his 'potty' place then you could put them there. I agree that using them can promote longer house training. I know of someone who still has to buy them for their dog even though it is 5 years old because they never quite got the house training right! And no one wants that :eek:

[Robinhuskylover2231]

I would like to add that I didn't actually say to use them in the house We tried that for all of a day an it got us nowhere! They were very useful for mopping any of Kodi's 'accidents' up though My thinking was more that if you had a specific place outside that you had designated as his 'potty' place then you could put them there. I agree that using them can promote longer house training. I know of someone who still has to buy them for their dog even though it is 5 years old because they never quite got the house training right! And no one wants that :eek:

Sorry, my misunderstanding!

[Robinhuskylover2231]

When I started with training Cally I would take her out on the leash to the spot and would not walk around with her but stand in one spot and let her walk around me and eventually she realized she wasn't going anywhere unless she did her business. And I think what was meant by using the crate as punishment is that you are putting him in his crate without play because play is a reward for doing his business outside. I personally- just my opinion- think that the reward should be the praise and treats that he is getting when he goes. It's like a child, they don't know the difference between right and wrong and they are still learning so you want to use as much positive reinforcement as possible. If he is going outside, not going and then going straight back to his crate he may be associating outside with crate time which is why he doesn't go- he just doesn't know what he is supposed to do yet. Of course, it is your puppy and if you feel this is what he needs then no one knows your pup better than you, just my opinion.

[Elyse]

It might be the kibble that's making him constipated so he doesn't poo as often as he should. I know Suka gets constipated whenever he's on a certain kind of kibble, gets the runs on another, so we tried quite a few before we settled on Taste of the Wild.

I know it sounds gross but how hard is the poo? If its really hard, it could be a sign of constipation (too much grain in the kibble can cause this) or dehydration or a combination of the two.

If he seems to be straining really hard when pooing, that also could be a sign of constipation.

Also...how much are you feeding him a day (in cups)? Obviously, the frequencies of poos depends on how much food he is getting. (I'm not accusing you of starving him or anything!!)

[Erinc]

Thanks everybody for the thoughtful responses, it really helps to know I'm not the only one who struggled with this.

To add a small success story, when I took him outside at 7am this morning he did pee and poop in the right spot, and I heaped praise and rewards on him!

Several responses suggested that he is more likely to go after walking around for a while, but I was specifically advised against doing that because it can make him want to hold it longer to make the walk last longer. Instead he is supposed to learn that first he needs to eliminate and then he gets a nice long walk/play time as reward.

Also, I don't use the crate as punishment, and when he is in the crate he is not alone, I'm usually still around him. I just want him to feel comfortable being in the crate for shorter periods of time, and he is less likely to eliminate in the house in his sleeping area. Gradually I will let him roam the house over time, but I need to know he is a little better trained right now, also in terms of chewing and biting stuff. His crate has chew toys that he likes and can let all his chewing instincts out on instead of my shoes or other stuff. And the reason I don't put water in his crate is so he doesn't knock it over and I don't know when he actually peed in the crate. Every time I take him out of the crate he gets plenty of water, and also when we're outside. Of course I don't want to dehydrate him!

I'll report on how he progresses over time, until I have to change the title to the Tale of the Puppy that won't stop pooping

Sounds like you're doing a great job Don't take my advice the wrong way, honestly, when I was in your shoes, I wanted every bit of information from anyone and everyone lol! I never mean to say you're doing something wrong, I always just say whatevers on my mind in case you can pick something out from it Every little helps!

[Sascha]

Yay I felt like there was some progress today! He pooped right away in the morning when I took him out, and then again later during the day. Would have been great to finish off with a pre-bedtime poop as well, but no luck on that one yet. Around this time he pooped in his bed last night, so I'm afraid to go to sleep without him having pooped just yet...

The vet couldn't find anything out of the ordinary today, but he did say that he is on the skinnier side and we shouldn't be afraid to feed him a little more, which I immediately started when dinner time came around. Makes sense that he won't poop as much if he doesn't eat enough, that would be an easy fix!

And to clarify what I said earlier, he does get a lot of play time even when he doesn't poop. I was just pointing out that according to "pure" crate training rules he should go back in the crate until he eliminates and then be rewarded with treats and play. Instead what I have done is praise him and give him treats when he eliminates, and give him extra nice/long/hard play time, but for those stretches during the day where he doesn't go I still play with him to encourage his bowel movements

Also, of course I looked at the color and consistency of his (rare) poop for any signs of dehydration or constipation, but his stool comes out easily and not too hard or soft, from what I can tell with my limited dog poop expertise just right

Update: My feeling was right, at 1:45am success and he pooped! Now I can get a couple hours of sleep without being concerned I'll find a big mess again...

Edited November 8, 2012 by Sascha

[Robinhuskylover2231]

Yay! Glad to hear your making some progress!!

[Kathirin]

Potty training ur puppy takes time and patience. What i used to do was feed him 3 times a day. I would wake up in the morning and feed him and he would or would not eat but after one hour of having his food down i would take it and put it back down in the afternoon. (water bowl was always available for him) I would feed him last at around 7pm. Now he eats once a day but he will eat 2 cups of his kibble food. I found that it helped a lot for me to keep him out for a long time in the backyard giving him less of a chance to have accidents in the house. For example i wouldnt keep him out for 10 min. I would keep him out for 1 hour. Ofcors i would be with him for a few min every while within that hour and he always had a long chain on giving him enough room to run around the whole backyard play and do his business and i always always always kept an eye on him and if it wasnt me watching him i would always ask my husband to do so while i took a break. ( i wouldnt suggest this if u do not have the time to watch him for 1 hour) But he enjoyed being outside when it was nice and cool ( i wouldnt suggest this if it was super hot outside either) Anyway in doing this he rarely had accidents in the house it took me about 2 weeks to fully train him and after that he would go to the door himself to be let out. But again everyone has a different way of doing it. Think of it like potty training ur kid. When i was potty training my kid we would have a bathroom break every 15 min. You can try taking him out every 15 min. Just find what works best for u and above all be patient. It takes time. Max sleeps through the whole night and never wakes me up to use the bathroom. He goes to bed around 10pm and will wake me up around 7am to go outside. So i dont have to do the whole 1 am potty breaks. . Anyway.. good luck. I hope this helps

[LittleLuka]

wait so how long are you crating him per day?

[Sascha]

According to those housetraining instructions I tried to follow they said I should be crating him pretty much all the time except for potty, feeding, and play times. However, in reality that didn't work well for me because it didn't give me a lot of time to interact with him since he didn't pee or poop much.

I definitely have him in the crate over night and when I'm out of the house, and when I can't watch him closely enough. There are six children in my house, my youngest daughter is only 2 years old, so there are A LOT of toys and things for him to get into if I let him roam around too much, so I really do need the crate training not only for housebreaking purposes, but also to make sure he chews only on his chew toys and nothing else. I do let him hang out in the kitchen or sit with my laptop right next to him when he's in the crate, so it's not like he is locked away by himself when he is in the crate.

By the way, taking him outside to his designated potty area and waiting until he eliminates has only about a 30-50% success rate for peeing and maybe a 5% success rate for pooping. He will either try to find something nearby to play with, sticks, leaves, tiny branches etc. or he will simply lie down next to me and sleep. Giving him more time doesn't really affect the outcome, one time I spent like 4 hours outside with him, most of which he just spent sleeping on the floor.

I guess I blame myself for believing some of those articles that sound like there is a simple and easy way to potty training your puppy. In the end we all have to figure out our dogs and see what works for us and what doesn't.

[Robinhuskylover2231]

According to those housetraining instructions I tried to follow they said I should be crating him pretty much all the time except for potty, feeding, and play times. However, in reality that didn't work well for me because it didn't give me a lot of time to interact with him since he didn't pee or poop much.

I definitely have him in the crate over night and when I'm out of the house, and when I can't watch him closely enough. There are six children in my house, my youngest daughter is only 2 years old, so there are A LOT of toys and things for him to get into if I let him roam around too much, so I really do need the crate training not only for housebreaking purposes, but also to make sure he chews only on his chew toys and nothing else. I do let him hang out in the kitchen or sit with my laptop right next to him when he's in the crate, so it's not like he is locked away by himself when he is in the crate.

By the way, taking him outside to his designated potty area and waiting until he eliminates has only about a 30-50% success rate for peeing and maybe a 5% success rate for pooping. He will either try to find something nearby to play with, sticks, leaves, tiny branches etc. or he will simply lie down next to me and sleep. Giving him more time doesn't really affect the outcome, one time I spent like 4 hours outside with him, most of which he just spent sleeping on the floor.

I guess I blame myself for believing some of those articles that sound like there is a simple and easy way to potty training your puppy. In the end we all have to figure out our dogs and see what works for us and what doesn't.

How long in total would you say he is being crated a day?... If you are there and able to sit beside him on a laptop I would let him out... they do much better even with that small change in interaction.... just my opinion again

[Elyse]

Also, getting out of the crate is crucial for socialization. I know you don't want the puppy to wreck stuff, but if your puppy doesn't learn that the sound of a blender (for example, probably a poor one) isn't going to hurt him then he's going to end up being fearful of it.

They're babies - they need to go out and explore the world around them!

Socialization can be anything from familiarizing him with sights, smells, different people of different ages and/or ethnic groups, different dog breeds (when he is old enough), and etc. So, basically everything and as much as possible.

Just an idea, perhaps he spends so much time sniffing outside is because he's crated for (big?) portions of the day...so the 'crate world' might seem like a boring place to him, so when he gets outside he's all like: "Grass! Trees! Birds! I'm ALIVE!!!". Hope that made sense, it did in my head...

[Robinhuskylover2231]

Also, getting out of the crate is crucial for socialization. I know you don't want the puppy to wreck stuff, but if your puppy doesn't learn that the sound of a blender (for example, probably a poor one) isn't going to hurt him then he's going to end up being fearful of it.

They're babies - they need to go out and explore the world around them!

Socialization can be anything from familiarizing him with sights, smells, different people of different ages and/or ethnic groups, different dog breeds (when he is old enough), and etc. So, basically everything and as much as possible.

Just an idea, perhaps he spends so much time sniffing outside is because he's crated for (big?) portions of the day...so the 'crate world' might seem like a boring place to him, so when he gets outside he's all like: "Grass! Trees! Birds! I'm ALIVE!!!". Hope that made sense, it did in my head...

Completely agree with Elyse- one other thing I forgot is that if you have a lot of children in your house as you said you do then you are going to want to get a large amount of time socializing him with them so it doesn't later develop into a problem because they are fearful of him or vice versa.

[Sascha]

It's been a couple of busy days for me so I finally wanted to give an update:

First of all, everybody seems to be getting the wrong idea about the crating. He spends maybe 6-8 hours in the crate within 24 hours, and that's mostly when he's sleeping anyway, so no worries about socializing or not letting him be with us. I do need him to feel comfortable in the crate, which he does, so that for those times where I need to leave him alone but cannot let him roam around the house he will be fine, and that has worked pretty well so far!

Second, he's pooping like a champ now. I will update my original posting so that any future puppy owners who stumble over this thread with similar concerns know that really all it takes is some time. The first week his schedule will be out of whack, but in the second week we really got a good rhythm going, he pees and poops when I take him out and really hasn't had any major accidents in the house. He peed in his play area maybe once or twice, but both times I knew he had to go and I had to take care of other stuff at the same time (usually my kids, sorry dog lovers, they come first ).

So it's all good now, I'm still using the schedule that I had posted in the beginning, and he has adapted wonderfully to it. As a matter of fact, I don't take him out in the middle of the night anymore, usually the last time around 11pm or midnight, and then again around 5-6am. Yay!