Confusing situation. Ectopic Ureter.

[BrittanyNicole]

I bought my puppy Zoey at 6 weeks old from a breeder who lives here in town. Met her online and talked to her a few times before actually paying and picking up the puppy. She would let us go over every weekend to see our pup which was really nice, but now we have run into a few problems. Well one BIG problem.

The first couple times we went over to see the puppies nothing seemed out of the ordinary. They looked healthy, but once we brought her home the problems started.

The first night with Zoey was expected. Waking up every couple hours to go out to use the bathroom or to eat. Crying through the night since she doesn't have her mom and siblings with her. She got over that in just a couple days.

But since day one we have been noticing a urine leaking problem. At first I thought it was just a puppy thing since she was so young and not used to her surroundings. She then started squatting every 5-10 minutes (no straining) but also no urine. I suspected she had an infection. So we took her to the vet after a couple days of these actions and had her checked out. They put her on Amoxicillin just in case she did have an infection, but the meds didn't help. Then they sent out a urinalysis afterwards to see if it could be some other kind of infection. Everything came back normal.

I was starting to look into conditions that dogs could get and the one I stumble across was an Ectopic Ureter condition. I brought it up to my vet and she told me that Zoey had signs, such as the urine stained legs, rash on her tummy, and constantly leaking. So I set up an appointment to have an ultrasound done of her abdomen. The vet told me that her left ureter looks abnormal but she can't say for sure that it's ectopic because I would have to set up a CT scan appointment that can actually see more in depth of that area (which is out of my league money wise at the moment).

She also told me that from the looks of it I am dealing with an ectopic ureter situation.

Now the confusing part is confronting the breeder about all of this. I have all of the paper work and records from the vet, but I don't know if I should be refunded my money from the breeder or what to even do about this situation.

I've read about breeders helping out with vet fees and refunding the money. I just want to know what everyone's thought is on this.

I also saw that there was another thread about Ectopic Ureters started, but I don't think I would have gotten answers, so I decided to make a new one. >_<

Any feedback helps. Thanks.

[Mazz]

Plain and simple. If this is indeed Ectopic Ureter, it is a birth defect. If the breeder did not provide a health guarantee, your recourse may be left to discussing with the breeder and seeing what they would agree to help with. I know you are probably in love with your pup at this point, but you may have a life of medical costs associated with this pup. You'll have to weigh that against your finances.

I would start with talking with the breeder. Don't get offensive or accusatory. That will only serve against your and your pup's best interest. See what they are willing to do to help. If reputable, they would most likely take this pup back and offer a replacement pup, or take the pup back and refund your money. Tough call for you I know. Perhaps if they offer a refund, you could see if they would apply that refund amount to the cost of corrective surgery.

I would also consider a second opinion from another vet, just to be sure what you are dealing with.

[Removed #5]

Tough call, especially since you don't know "for certain", I'll bow to [MENTION=322]Mazz[/MENTION] and his experience 'cause I have none!

[BrittanyNicole]

Plain and simple. If this is indeed Ectopic Ureter, it is a birth defect. If the breeder did not provide a health guarantee, your recourse may be left to discussing with the breeder and seeing what they would agree to help with. I know you are probably in love with your pup at this point, but you may have a life of medical costs associated with this pup. You'll have to weigh that against your finances.

I would start with talking with the breeder. Don't get offensive or accusatory. That will only serve against your and your pup's best interest. See what they are willing to do to help. If reputable, they would most likely take this pup back and offer a replacement pup, or take the pup back and refund your money. Tough call for you I know. Perhaps if they offer a refund, you could see if they would apply that refund amount to the cost of corrective surgery.

I would also consider a second opinion from another vet, just to be sure what you are dealing with.

Yeah, I'm going back to the vet tomorrow morning to get a copy of her records so I could ask for a second opinion.

I was thinking about the future and what might happen. Maybe her medical issues could get worse, but I don't know. She's just too cute to give back! D:

Thank you for the feedback.

[Elyse]

Let us know how things worked out...

[BrittanyNicole]

So my boyfriend got in touch with the breeder earlier today and updated her on Zoey's situation and the first thing she told us was that we shouldn't have gone to the vet because all the vet wants is money. Which is ridiculous because I noticed Zoey was having an issue and in our contract it even says to go to the vet within the first week to make sure the pup is healthy. (Just doing with the contract told me to do)

We have also been having issues with getting her AKC papers, but she said those should be delivered in about 10 business days. (On top of the 3 weeks we've been waiting for them)

We told her the papers weren't the issue, the issue was Zoey's health. She then tells us that she is expecting another litter and that we can keep our pup and she will give us another pup FOR FREE! At this point I just want my money refunded, but I feel like I am being a little dramatic. Even though I've spent around $500+ in vet fees in just 3 weeks.

I have decided to wait a few more weeks to see if the problem persists, and if it does I will then ask for my money back because I think that's only right.

[Mazz]

The breeder is building a defensive line already. I doubt the breeder is going to be very helpful, from what you've posted.

[Removed #2]

Is your expectation to get your money back and keep your pup?

[BrittanyNicole]

The breeder is building a defensive line already. I doubt the breeder is going to be very helpful, from what you've posted.

Yeah, I have a feeling this is going to become a really huge hassle. Just have to wait and see.

I don't know if she knew to look for things like that before selling the dogs or not. From what I know I think she breeds huskies just because she likes the breed. She's not experienced with breeding.

Breeding for 5 years doesn't make you a true breeder and I wish I had known before hand.

[BrittanyNicole]

Is your expectation to get your money back and keep your pup?

Well yeah kind of because I've already had to pup for 3 weeks and if I were to give her back I have no idea what she'd do with her. I've read that they've put pups down because of the EU conditions, or she could even resell her.

If she was willing to let me keep my pup and get a free one from her next litter than why can't she just refund me my money? She knows something is up.

[Elyse]

Well yeah kind of because I've already had to pup for 3 weeks and if I were to give her back I have no idea what she'd do with her. I've read that they've put pups down because of the EU conditions, or she could even resell her.

If she was willing to let me keep my pup and get a free one from her next litter than why can't she just refund me my money? She knows something is up.

Because she doesn't want to deal with a puppy with a chronic lifelong condition, that's why.

And, maybe she's hoping that will get her back in your good books...so you can 'recommend' her to others (Don't do it! She's a BYB!!)

Have you researched more about the condition? I think you might be able to fix it with surgery, more about it here: http://www.petwave.com/Dogs/Dog-Health-Center/Kidney-and-Urinary-Tract-Disorders/Ectopic-Ureters/Treatment.aspx

Apparently the success rate is only 50%. It's your call...

[BrittanyNicole]

Because she doesn't want to deal with a puppy with a chronic lifelong condition, that's why.

And, maybe she's hoping that will get her back in your good books...so you can 'recommend' her to others (Don't do it! She's a BYB!!)

Have you researched more about the condition? I think you might be able to fix it with surgery, more about it here: http://www.petwave.com/Dogs/Dog-Health-Center/Kidney-and-Urinary-Tract-Disorders/Ectopic-Ureters/Treatment.aspx

Apparently the success rate is only 50%. It's your call...

Yeah, I've read about getting the surgery done. It's a few thousand dollars to get it done where I live and I would also have to get a CT scan done before they do the surgery because they want to look more in depth in that area. Which runs around $800.

At this point I'm just going to see what happens. I can always get my baby diapers. Even though she HATES wearing them. Haha.

[Elyse]

Yeah, I've read about getting the surgery done. It's a few thousand dollars to get it done where I live and I would also have to get a CT scan done before they do the surgery because they want to look more in depth in that area. Which runs around $800.

At this point I'm just going to see what happens. I can always get my baby diapers. Even though she HATES wearing them. Haha.

Keep in mind, that EU is a lifelong condition. So you'd have to buy diapers for her for 12 years (Average lifespan of a husky)...

You're in a really tough situation, and honestly, I would hate to be in your place. I know I wouldn't want to give up the puppy, because I'm a sucker for animals, but at the same time I wouldn't want to have to deal with EU for 12 years/pay for a surgery that is only 50% successful.

[BrittanyNicole]

Keep in mind, that EU is a lifelong condition. So you'd have to buy diapers for her for 12 years (Average lifespan of a husky)...

You're in a really tough situation, and honestly, I would hate to be in your place. I know I wouldn't want to give up the puppy, because I'm a sucker for animals, but at the same time I wouldn't want to have to deal with EU for 12 years/pay for a surgery that is only 50% successful.

Yeah, I know. :/ At first I was willing to give her back, but now that I think about it, she's like my child. >_< Haha. So I can't just give up on her.

As much as I wanted her to be an inside dog, she can always be outside. I'll just have to husky proof the backyard.

[Elyse]

Yeah, I know. :/ At first I was willing to give her back, but now that I think about it, she's like my child. >_< Haha. So I can't just give up on her.

As much as I wanted her to be an inside dog, she can always be outside. I'll just have to husky proof the backyard.

Huskies are very social and very much 'people dogs', so unless you spend a lot of time outside with her (or get another dog) then you're going to end up with a frustrated and not-happy husky.

It is possible she could still be an inside dog. If you have a 'spare' room (like if a room is just being 'used' for storage or isn't really used at all) and if its a fair size, that can be her room...and that would be the only room she would be allowed in (except for when she has to go outside and stuff...obviously).

Then, you would only have to wipe down the floor in that room instead of wiping down the whole house/worrying you won't be able to get it out of furniture/carpets.

Or, you can try going with the surgery. Talk to your vet about it (talk to more than one vet actually, to get more opinions) and see if the success rate is higher if you get it done when she's much younger (like around this age?) and if there is any price difference between getting it done while she's around this age, or getting it done when she's a bit older.

[Candie]

I posted this in your other thread not sure if you saw it. I have a puppy that is just a few days younger than yours and I was having the same problem with her. I took her to the vet and he could only find crystals in her urine. I asked about the eu and my vet said it was really hard to diagnose in puppies until after her first heat cycle. He gave her a med to take daily D/L Methionine 200mg tab. It has made all the difference in the world. Might be something you want to ask your vet about when you go for a 2nd opinion. Aurora has been completely house trained in the 2 weeks since she started taking this med. It will cost me about 30 dollars a month to give it to her, but for me it is well worth the expense. Hope all works out well for Zoey. I couldn't imagine my life w/o Aurora now.

[Whitehuskys]

hi

i have an 11 week old with the same problem. I have started a facebbok group eptopic ureters in dogs today. I have spoken to a few people who have experience with this condition. On lady has given me hope. SHe has a two year old who hasnt had surgery but is on cranberry juice tablets. This has stopped the infections for two years and although she still leaks she has avoided costly surgery.

Please join the facebook page and I will try and get as many people who have experience with this problem to join and provide support.

Julie

[BrittanyNicole]

Huskies are very social and very much 'people dogs', so unless you spend a lot of time outside with her (or get another dog) then you're going to end up with a frustrated and not-happy husky.

It is possible she could still be an inside dog. If you have a 'spare' room (like if a room is just being 'used' for storage or isn't really used at all) and if its a fair size, that can be her room...and that would be the only room she would be allowed in (except for when she has to go outside and stuff...obviously).

Then, you would only have to wipe down the floor in that room instead of wiping down the whole house/worrying you won't be able to get it out of furniture/carpets.

Or, you can try going with the surgery. Talk to your vet about it (talk to more than one vet actually, to get more opinions) and see if the success rate is higher if you get it done when she's much younger (like around this age?) and if there is any price difference between getting it done while she's around this age, or getting it done when she's a bit older.

I'm going to start asking around to see the quotes I get about the surgery. My vet that I'm taking Zoey to right now tells me to wait until her first heat cycle to see if that makes a difference since her muscle will tighten then. Even though the surgery would be a 50/50 chance, I think I still want to get it done for her. (Even though animal surgeries scare me)

The breeder also offered to refund my money which is really nice of her. I thought it was going to be a hassle. But I'm sure she understands that this situation is frustrating.

[BrittanyNicole]

I posted this in your other thread not sure if you saw it. I have a puppy that is just a few days younger than yours and I was having the same problem with her. I took her to the vet and he could only find crystals in her urine. I asked about the eu and my vet said it was really hard to diagnose in puppies until after her first heat cycle. He gave her a med to take daily D/L Methionine 200mg tab. It has made all the difference in the world. Might be something you want to ask your vet about when you go for a 2nd opinion. Aurora has been completely house trained in the 2 weeks since she started taking this med. It will cost me about 30 dollars a month to give it to her, but for me it is well worth the expense. Hope all works out well for Zoey. I couldn't imagine my life w/o Aurora now.

I think I am going to ask my vet about that medication. Thank you so much! Does it have any side effects that you notice in your puppy?

[Elyse]

I'm going to start asking around to see the quotes I get about the surgery. My vet that I'm taking Zoey to right now tells me to wait until her first heat cycle to see if that makes a difference since her muscle will tighten then. Even though the surgery would be a 50/50 chance, I think I still want to get it done for her. (Even though animal surgeries scare me)

The breeder also offered to refund my money which is really nice of her. I thought it was going to be a hassle. But I'm sure she understands that this situation is frustrating.

That's really good the breeder offered to refund your money.

I personally think the surgery is a good idea. You'll never know if it works or not if you don't try!

Why are you scared of the surgery?

[BrittanyNicole]

That's really good the breeder offered to refund your money.

I personally think the surgery is a good idea. You'll never know if it works or not if you don't try!

Why are you scared of the surgery?

Surgeries just scare me. >_<

I also don't like leaving my puppy with strangers. It's just something I've always been scared of.

[Elyse]

Surgeries just scare me. >_<

I also don't like leaving my puppy with strangers. It's just something I've always been scared of.

If you're scared of having a particular vet to do the surgery (or even in general...), you can always look around until you find one your comfortable with.

When Suka had to have surgery on his eye this summer (to remove a tumor), I did NOT feel comfortable leaving him with my regular vet, even though she was qualified. It was just a feeling I had. I told her I wanted the surgery to be done by a specialist, and she referred me to the nearest one. No hard feelings...

The specialist, of course, ended up being a million dollars more expensive than if the regular vet would have done it...but honestly, its his eyes, and I felt going to a specialist was the best way to go. Less of a chance of something going wrong, because specialists really only focus on one area of the body so they know that area really well.

Have you tried going to other vets to see what they say about when the surgery should be done? I've never had females before, so I'm not sure how their first heat affects their body.

[MENTION=1869]sutsibe[/MENTION] is a breeder though, so she probably knows...

[BrittanyNicole]

If you're scared of having a particular vet to do the surgery (or even in general...), you can always look around until you find one your comfortable with.

When Suka had to have surgery on his eye this summer (to remove a tumor), I did NOT feel comfortable leaving him with my regular vet, even though she was qualified. It was just a feeling I had. I told her I wanted the surgery to be done by a specialist, and she referred me to the nearest one. No hard feelings...

The specialist, of course, ended up being a million dollars more expensive than if the regular vet would have done it...but honestly, its his eyes, and I felt going to a specialist was the best way to go. Less of a chance of something going wrong, because specialists really only focus on one area of the body so they know that area really well.

Have you tried going to other vets to see what they say about when the surgery should be done? I've never had females before, so I'm not sure how their first heat affects their body.

@sutsibe is a breeder though, so she probably knows...

I need to talk to my vet when she calls later this week to check up on Zoey about the surgery and the place she'll refer me to, then I'll go around asking other vets. If I'm not mistaken, my vet told me there is only one place and one specialist here in town.

I have yet to meet this person, but I'm sure they know what they're doing.

I also don't know anything about what happens to a puppy's body after their first heat cycle. I heard that a muscle tightens in their bladder helping them hold their urine? Which, if true, could take a load off if that happens with Zoey.

[Candie]

I think I am going to ask my vet about that medication. Thank you so much! Does it have any side effects that you notice in your puppy?

No side effects really. She does drink more which causes her to have to go out to the bathroom more. At night I cut her water off at 9pm and she usually goes to sleep with us at 10pm. For the last week she has been sleeping until about 6am. Before the meds she woke me up twice a night to go pee and she really never went, she just squatted but didn't pee. My vet told me I prolly wouldn't have to keep her on this med forever just until she develops more.

[BrittanyNicole]

No side effects really. She does drink more which causes her to have to go out to the bathroom more. At night I cut her water off at 9pm and she usually goes to sleep with us at 10pm. For the last week she has been sleeping until about 6am. Before the meds she woke me up twice a night to go pee and she really never went, she just squatted but didn't pee. My vet told me I prolly wouldn't have to keep her on this med forever just until she develops more.

So no side effects. That's good. I cut off Zoey's food at 8pm and water at 9pm and she goes to bed with us at 10pm, but she sleeps through the night if she poops before bed. She'll leak in her sleep so whenever she wakes up at 5am, her blanket in her crate is always wet, but she'll still pee normally in the morning. It's so weird.