My poor Sasha

[Staceybob]

Al, from your perspective, could she possibly be nervous? Without pushing her do you think you could snap a quick vid so I can have a look at her body language. Don't get yourself into a position of harm just that warning lip so I can have a look.

Stacey xxx

[Removed #5]

She came out for a drink, I called her and she came over for a quick pet and then headed back into the corner. The last time I got a look at the incision from the spay was yesterday afternoon and it looked like it was okay. She's stopped licking it - so I'll assume that it's healing acceptably.

Nervous, I don't think so. As long as no one bothers her, she's content where she is ... even when I go over there, there's no quick action that I'd take to indicate nervousness.

I don't have anything to take a vid with - and still photos, with my old camera aren't going to work.

I'm leaving her alone for the time being, she doesn't want to come out of the corner and Avalanche has decided that he's going to stay close to me. Eventually she'll have to come out for food - which I have put up until I can get some reaction out of her besides "leave me alone!"

'fraid I just don't understand this dog!

[Removed #5]

Okay, I think I'm getting a handle on what's going on with her.

She's nesting - and her tits are swollen, like she 3/4 of the way to term - it looks like having her spayed has her hormones all out of whack! She's acting more like her normal self today, she's been out of her corner several times and when I lay down to take a nap, she came over to lay beside me on the floor - that's when I got a good look at her belly. She's now behind me and has padded the blanket on the floor into a nice little, comfortable <??> pile.

I swear, this dog is definitely going to drive me to drink!!

[Storm Angel n Auroras Mum]

Okay, I think I'm getting a handle on what's going on with her.

She's nesting - and her tits are swollen, like she 3/4 of the way to term - it looks like having her spayed has her hormones all out of whack! She's acting more like her normal self today, she's been out of her corner several times and when I lay down to take a nap, she came over to lay beside me on the floor - that's when I got a good look at her belly. She's now behind me and has padded the blanket on the floor into a nice little, comfortable <??> pile.

I swear, this dog is definitely going to drive me to drink!!

bless her poor baby

[Removed #5]

Don't ask me what's going on ... Avalanche has been on the lead outside all day, not too unusual but he normally comes in and out. Went to let him in - it's now dark and getting chilly - nope, Sasha went to the door with me and he won't come in.

She took a step toward him and he literally *ran* off the porch. Obviously something has happened between them today that I missed, he was inside and okay last night.

I'm willing to try with this girl, but it seems as if every time I turn around I have another problem of some kind with her. Avalanche is a friendly, fun loving, lap dog (if I let him); much the easier of the two to care for. Sasha's attitude is really getting to me and I, honestly, don't know what the blazes to do. (( griping ..... ))

[Removed #5]

Okay, I've set on this for a while (this written Wednesday morning) and am thinking some things that know people won't approve of but I'm literally getting to my wits end.

Avalanche is afraid to come into the house, he spent the last two night on the porch, comes to the door, looks in sees her and backs up - wants to come in but is obviously afraid <?> He's setting on the porch whining. This is not fair.

After she's taken various sized chunks out of me, I have to admit that *I'm* concerned that she might decide to take a bigger chunk - which doesn't help my confidence level working with her.

StaceyBob asked if she might be nervous and I did some looking around and the lay of her head and ears suggests nervousness (head down, ears back but not flat), but otherwise her attitude suggest she's boss - and in a lot of ways she is, some things she listens to ("set" for food, "back up" at the door) but in general she does what she wants - much worse than Avalanche and definitely worse than Misty was.

I know that she's "mentally messed up" after being spayed - but as I said earlier, it's getting old having to make excuses for some very bad behaviour. This attitude of hers that "offense is the only defense" is wearing on me badly...

On the evening of the 2nd I left her outside for a while, after she had corrected Avalanche for nothing that I could see, and it was one constant cry to "let me in".

Aside: As a kid, when I was living on the farm (we had 300 ares but in total there were probably close to 1500 we had the run of) my cousin brought his GSD up because she had gotten vicious - seriously vicious. Her chain link run ended at the sidewalk and the kids going back and forth to school had teased her till she only wanted one thing and that was to get one of them! When he brought Kim up we tied her out to the clothesline pole - there was no way that she could live "en familia"; I started feeding her and it was rough for a while but she eventually calmed down and became a one man dog (as shepherds seem to do). I had to have her on leash when around strangers, but she eventually accepted the rest of the family. We could go walking in the woods, off leash, and while she wandered some, she'd come as soon as I called. It took time and effort, but she eventually became a really good one man dog.

The reason for that aside - I'm seriously thinking of putting Sasha out back and taking it to the point of "if you don't behave you get nothing". She wants to be inside, she wants to be with me <?> but her attitude is really turning me off. I won't tolerate much more of the "bitch attitude" before we're going to have a serious confrontation where she's going to be the fatal loser and I *really* do not want to see that happen. I need some sort of "course correction" and I'm completely at a loss.

My phone and camera both take stills so I'm stuck there. And mostly anything that happens is so quick that I don't have the time to get camera in hand.

Being so far away from anyone who might be able to provide professional help is a major problem. (( she nipped the vet, so he's not too happy to see her even!! ))

Followup Thursday afternoon: "Things" are getting better, she's not being the total obnoxious pain that she has been. At least the confrontation with me seems to have lightened up some. ('course, I'm the keeper of the food!) Avalanche is still staying as far away from her as he can, I literally brought him into the house earlier today and he sat or lay right in front of the door until I let him back out. Sasha's snapped but not attacked him once today - again I can't see a reason. She's on the same type of lead he is, she can come and go as she wants. We've gone out for walks but as soon as she does whatever it is she needs to do she heads right back to the trailer. I "suggested" a longer walk, but every time I paused, she was heading back towards the house.

The incision, while a little pink seems to be healing nicely. Physically she seems to be okay - I just do not understand the constant attitude and abruptness of its change. Psychotic dog????

Comments, suggestions - we all need some help .... //al

[Rosemary]

Not a great situation to be in Al - for you and Avalanche I can't give advice, but understand your frustration with the situation. Every couple of months Micha has this strange desire to attack Ozzy if he gets too close or has something she wants, or even if he gets too close to Monty or I, we give her a time-out in the bathroom, which does the trick, but it is not pleasant.

[Sarah]

oh Al i wish i could help

[Removed #5]

Friday morning after a not great night.

Brought Avalanche in about sundown and Sasha immediately, literally, cornered him; called her off and she let him out of the corner. He went to his bed and she chased him out of it - didn't do anything but just her presence was enough to move him. That's the way the next several hours went - he'd move and she'd protest, presence and air snaps. Finally decided it was time to let them both out and go to bed. Avalanche went out, willingly ("Let me out of here dad!"). Sasha decided she didn't need / want to go. Went to bring Avalanche back in and with Sasha setting at the door he didn't want to (honestly can't say as I blame him). Got him in and Sasha immediately cornered him again - nope, that ain't gonna work. (I've had her on lead in the house since that gives me a handle on her) so I took the lead and put her outside. After about 15 minutes she started talking / whining - my concern with her noise is that she'll attract a pack of coyotes, with no lights on they can get brave; I'm not too concerned about one or two, she can physically handle them, I am concerned about a pack of 7 - 8 - if they sense that she's defenseless then she becomes fair game for them and with her noise she will attract their attention

Left her outside for another 15 minutes or so and then decided to try something. My front door is a set of sliding patio doors. Their chains will catch on the door sill and unless they back up they can't get any further in or out. I gave her about 4 feet of chain and then shut the door on the rest of it - she had about a four foot run in the house, far enough to get to water and not enough to intimidate Avalanche any further.

Friday morning - I'm being ignored, though when I went to pet her she did give me full belly. Gave her the rest of the lead so that she can move around and she's still laying in front of the door. I'll see how this plays out. She's got to figure out that she is not the boss - I am and if keeping her tied down to the point that she can't do much of anything unless I say works then I'm all for it.

I've heard of stubborn, but this lady is stubborn to the max!!

[Removed #5]

Just in case anyone's wondering, I'm using this as a time line for me since my sense of time - especially when I'm frustrated tends to be VERY bad.

The rest of Friday went pretty much as it started. Avalanche is afraid to come in, he prefers to be outside much of the time anyway, but it makes me feel bad that he's not comfortable with coming in.

Friday evening ... went out with both of them so Sasha could do her final duty. Then brought Avalanche back in and Sasha is back on the short lead so that Avalanche can move around without getting harassed. Midnight (all times till morning are approximate) Sasha: "Hey, Dad, I want out!", urinated and came back in. 02:00 - "Hey, Dad, I want out" (argh!) she went out and sat on the porch, gave her about 15 minute and brought her back in. 04:00 - "Hey, Dad, I want out!" took her out and she again sat on the porch. Me: okay, you want out, you can stay out! Left her there (she's on 30 foot lead so she can move around outside) - it didn't take her long before she was whining to get back in, The whining got pretty loud after a while but as I said, I'm at wits end. Somehow, I actually drifted off to sleep - sort of - until almost 08:00. Got up, let her in and Avalanche out - yeh, musical dogs!

Now it starts to get interesting. Got her food out (Avalanches is on the porch) "Set, stay" - she did both (!!!), then I started to move her food out of the doorway between the living room and the kitchen and she "snapped" at me - interesting because it was almost a proforma snap, she didn't make contact and she really didn't put much effort into it.

She stayed under foot - literally - if I get out of my chair, she's immediately under my feet, I have to step between her legs to step over her! She's pushed her rug around so that it's beside my chair (I turn sideways to get up from the counter) and has been there almost consistently for the last 36 hours (through Sunday morning).

Saturday night: she's stayed beside my chair and when I brought Avalanche back in she just looked up and he has run of the house again. He sleeps on the floor beside me most nights, last night was no exception. Sasha stayed in the corner where my counter is.

Sunday morning: of course she's right under foot again. Not too sure what to make of this, but at least she's not being aggressive toward either me or Avalanche. Got down one of their toys to see if I could get some reaction from her, she looked at it, took one end and sorta played for about a minute - snapped at me one time when I reached in to get it, but again it seems to be almost as if she's doing it because it's expected not to do any damage.

(( Laughing, neighbors - about 1 1/2 mile away are burning something [stove? for heat] and Avalanche is out on the porch barking at the smoke, I think, he's looking that way. He's a better than average watch dog! ))

She's objecting less, and less violently, to my moving around something that is hers. Good point. There have been no messes in the house for the past three days. Of course being on a short lead overnight makes her want to not mess in her immediate vicinity. Good point. She was on a long lead last night and again no mess in the kitchen.

I'm concerned that she's staying in this one place, except to let me know she wants out - which is not too often. On the other hand, she does seem to have gotten it through her skull that playing bitch 24/7 is not going to work.

Okay, this may sound like I've been [unnecessarily] crude - but it has reached the point where she MUST accept that she's not the boss. It's beginning to feel like I'm gradually making some headway ... wondering at what point I want to start letting her have more freedom or how long I want to keep her on lead in the house (BTW, she chewed the end off her short walking lead so for now she's on either her 15 foot walking lead or her 30 foot "outside" chain lead.)

I won't give up on her, though it may sound like I have, unless she takes a serious bite - which is beginning to look less likely. I really wish I could get into her head and know what she's really thinking and I wish Avalanche would stop barking at the smoke!

Edited December 9, 2012 by Al Jones

[Rosemary]

Micah has these 'episodes' where everything Ozzy does is wrong, the poor boy tries to keep a low profile, but it is not easy living with her when she is like that.

I am really glad to read that Sasha seems to realise that you won't be putting up with that behavior, will certainly make life easier for everyone .

[Sarah]

Sounds kilo things are taking a turn , really hope they continue to improve although reading about avalanche barking at smoke has made me laugh! X

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[Sarah]

Kilo??? Lol that should have said like lol

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[Removed #5]

I'm a bit more the pessimist now, we've had so many "arguments". There are times she's much the "normal" dog - she'd picked up the toy rope and had it between her paws just daring me to take it, I did and she "snapped" (like she has been yesterday and today very "pro forma")

She is, without a doubt, the most "serious" dog I've ever been around - she cannot / will not play - the episode with the rope earlier today is about as close as it comes.

[Storm Angel n Auroras Mum]

I'm a bit more the pessimist now, we've had so many "arguments". There are times she's much the "normal" dog - she'd picked up the toy rope and had it between her paws just daring me to take it, I did and she "snapped" (like she has been yesterday and today very "pro forma")

She is, without a doubt, the most "serious" dog I've ever been around - she cannot / will not play - the episode with the rope earlier today is about as close as it comes.

angel took almost a year till she would play.

now its a delightful sight.

Im confused by sashas behaviour, On one hand displaying alpha behaviour on the other shes under your feet which I dont think an alpha would do.

Ive worked out my angel is beta. storm is way bottom bless him but he doesnt care.

[Removed #5]

You think you're confused!?!? On the one hand she's about aloof as they come - dog or human! On the other, on those occasions where she wants attention it's almost like she can't get enough. It's almost like living with someone who doesn't want to be here, but when I let her outside (as opposed to walking her) on lead, she does what she needs to do and is wanting back in.

If I thought she was really a "bad dog" I'd have done something long before this, it's think in the long run it's just getting through to her that she's really okay and safe here.

[Storm Angel n Auroras Mum]

You think you're confused!?!? On the one hand she's about aloof as they come - dog or human! On the other, on those occasions where she wants attention it's almost like she can't get enough. It's almost like living with someone who doesn't want to be here, but when I let her outside (as opposed to walking her) on lead, she does what she needs to do and is wanting back in.

If I thought she was really a "bad dog" I'd have done something long before this, it's think in the long run it's just getting through to her that she's really okay and safe here.

al it took me a year to get angel to where she is now. she still prefers me, she is wary of strangers. doesnt like people too close to her bum and hates people in the house other than us.

[Removed #5]

Oh, this girl is going to drive me nuts - but today it was good nuts. She's still making like velcro most of the time, but I caught her today.

She'd picked up the rope toy and was in the middle of the living room with it between her feet - "Hmmm... she's teasing me" says I, so I walk over and reach for it ( not sure if I was gonna have a hand left or not ), she backs up and I pick it up and toss it. and she goes and gets it and brings it most of the way back to me and drops it!! We do that twice more and she say's "Okay, I've humoured him enough!" that is seriously the first time that she's ever even acted like she's willing to play!

Add to that, if I stop to give her a petting she's belly up for a belly rub! It's almost as if she's changed her stripes - praying that this last!!!

[Rosemary]

Wow that is great - your hard work is showing results really good news, so many people would have given up a long time ago.

[Sarah]

Wow that's great al!!! X

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[BingBlaze n Skyla]

Hope it stays that way al :-)

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[Austinville]

We're needing an update, @AlJones

[Removed #5]

Hi [MENTION=53]Austinville[/MENTION], an update, thanks for asking ... things have been staying pretty much at a status quo.

We're making progress with the food possessive issue but unlike Avalanche who gets his "all you can eat" on the porch, she gets two meals a day inside, so she's really gotten the "it's my food and I'll let you share it" lesson. I can call her over, "set, stay", put it down, and she looks at it, "go ahead" and she turns around and walks off ... dizzy dog!! And, yes, I pick it up till the other meal time.

That one time with the rope has been it, she's picked it up to chew on it and will let me have it, but fetch - am I nuts?? I know, "itsa Husky thang!" I really do wish we could come up with a way to play - she's just not interested. Avalanche will play 24/7 if I let him.

And on that note, he's completely wanting to stay outside. There haven't been any more dominance "fights", but when I go to bring him in, Sasha's at the door waiting. She's started to (I'm not sure) nip / head butt his feet when he walks in so he stops right where he is ( get your tail inside, dog! ) just inside the door - and she's guarding the rest of the house. I've called her off and she relents, but he's scared to come on in until she moves away.

She's gotten a lot better about my taking things around her - I'll reach, like for the rope - and she'll "snap" but it's obvious that it's not serious, there's no growl, she doesn't make contact - in time, I'll see if that's what she thinks of as play, but for the nonce I value my fingers and she's gotten them a couple of times now.

She's still not really wanting to go out, she'll ask me when she needs to go out, but as soon as she's done, she's heading back to the door to go inside. Taking a walk is rough 'cause she keeps circling around to go back inside. Weird dog!!

All in all, we're making progress ... but it's slow and odd ...

[Austinville]

If anyone can figure this out, it will be you. Thank you for not giving up on her. I know what a challenge she has been for you. And Al, would you give Avalanche a hug for Ryn and I, it must be difficult for him as well.

Hugs to you all, and do keep us updated!

[Sarah]

can only echo what Becky has said Al - hope things continue to improve xx