Why K.c Registration?

[Cherrie-Nanook-Indy]

Here's a question. How would you ever get KC registration for a dog thats parents doesn't have KC papers? Eg (and this is completely hypothetical) Kaya is reg'd with dog lovers, what if we wanted to breed from her (we don't BTW) and wanted to "create" a new line / our own Kennals? Would it ever be possible? Would we have to breed her, then her pups, then their pups etc for years and years to prove the line? Just curious, it's not something we ever intend to do just wondered how it would be done. Thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Julieanne]

Here's a question. How would you ever get KC registration for a dog thats parents doesn't have KC papers? Eg (and this is completely hypothetical) Kaya is reg'd with dog lovers, what if we wanted to breed from her (we don't BTW) and wanted to "create" a new line / our own Kennals? Would it ever be possible? Would we have to breed her, then her pups, then their pups etc for years and years to prove the line? Just curious, it's not something we ever intend to do just wondered how it would be done. Thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I too have wondered where breeders started, all the breeders I've come by have started with dogs from kennels that are already well set up.

[BingBlaze n Skyla]

For us it was a case ov dad's only going to a breeder that has hip/eye scored n pups are kc reg or we aren't getting one , with skyla it was the same even tho she was kind ov a rehome pup, I actually haven't transfered them over into my name yet tho

It's not overly important to me, they are both fixed so can't be bred from , dad just wanted to make sure we were going to a good breeder

[raindog]

Here's a question. How would you ever get KC registration for a dog thats parents doesn't have KC papers? Eg (and this is completely hypothetical) Kaya is reg'd with dog lovers, what if we wanted to breed from her (we don't BTW) and wanted to "create" a new line / our own Kennals? Would it ever be possible? Would we have to breed her, then her pups, then their pups etc for years and years to prove the line? Just curious, it's not something we ever intend to do just wondered how it would be done. Thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The answer is very simple - you wouldn't!  If a dog's parents aren't registered with a recognised Kennel Club, it will be impossible to ever register them.

 

The whole point of KC registration is that ancestry can be followed back over many generations. Every single Siberian Husky in the world is descended from about 12 of the original imports from Siberia to Alaska in the early years of the 20th Century. With registration from a recognised Kennel Club (the UK's KC, the AKC in the US or the CKC in Canada etc etc) you can follow your dog's pedigree right back to those original dogs. Perhaps more importantly, you can research the health of those ancestors to ensure that your prospective puppy is likely to be healthy (as long as all the parental health tests have been carried out down the line). Without KC registration, you can do none of these things.

 

As to the value of KC registration in general, as far as I am concerned, KC registration is only one of a number of factors which should be researched thoroughly at if you are looking to buy a puppy from a breeder (as opposed to rehoming a rescued dog). These are the factors I would look for:

 

 

• Are the dogs being bred Kennel Club registered and are the pups KC registered. KC registration is not a 100% guarantee, but it is a strong indication that the pedigree of your dog is accurate and honest. If the mother, father or the pups are not KC registered, beat a hasty retreat at that point. Note: there are other dog registration organisations in the UK but their registrations are not worth the paper they are written on. If it ain’t KC, don’t buy it!

 

• Do the breeders work and/or show their dogs? If not, why are they breeding? Most good breeders breed litters to improve their teams either for the showring, the trail or both. If they are doing neither you have to assume that their main motivation is cash! - not the best reason for breeding dogs

 

• How easy do they make it to buy a puppy? If you don’t get the (friendly) third degree about your knowledge of the breed, the security of your house and garden etc, it is unlikely that they are a responsible breeder. Will they let you see the mum and dad and all their other dogs? You can learn a lot from the condition and temperament of the adult dogs in a breeder’s kennel. More often than not the breeder will have gone “outside†for a mating, so they won’t actually own the stud dog, but they should be able to show you pictures, pedigree and health certification for the dad as well as the mum.

 

•  Have the appropriate health tests for the breed been carried out on the parents? Although as a breed, the Siberian Husky is very healthy, all responsible breeders will screen their dogs for hereditary defects. In particular they should be checked for hip and eye defects. Ask if the parents of the puppies are tested and ask to see the results.

 

•  How old is the mother and how many litters has she had? No bitch should be bred before the age of 2 years or after the age of 7. There should be at least a year between successive matings and no bitch should have more than three litters in her lifetime.

 

•  Was the litter planned or was it “accidentalâ€?  If you are told that the litter can’t be registered because the mating was “accidental†and the bitch was too young/too old etc etc etc, walk away. Post mating contraceptive injections have been available from vets for years and there is no excuse for “accidental†matings. It is surprising how many bad breeders have “accidental†mating after “ accidental†mating.

 

•  Will the breeder expect you to sign a contract of sale in which you undertake to return the dog direct to the breeder if for any reason you cannot keep it, and in which you acknowledge that the dog has breeding/export restrictions on its KC papers and cannot be bred from without agreement from the breeder? All responsible breeders will insist upon this for the protection of the dog.

 

If you find a breeder who ticks all these boxes, you have found a pretty good breeder. Unfortunately the vast majority of breeders in the UK (and I imagine elsewhere too) are not good breeders and are more interested in the money they can make than they are in the welfare of the breed. Since founding SHWA(UK) six years ago, we have taken in and rehomed almost 700 unwanted Siberians. Of these only THREE (ie less than half of one percent) were bred by breeders who ticked all the above boxes and, of course, as soon as these breeders knew we had their dogs in rescue they took them back immediately and rehomed them themselves. The rest were  "breeders" whose primary interest in breeding was financial, so, if you want to support breeders who are only interested in your money, buy a non-KC registered puppy. If not, find a breeder who ticks all the above boxes or rehome a rescue dog - God knows there are enough of the poor things!!

[a7xAda]

If I am going for a pedigree dog, I am more likely to go to a breeder for the purposes listed above. I would want a dog more inclined to have good health based on lineage because as someone else stated, if I am paying money for a good dog, I would expect no less. I've always been one myself to rescue animals as I feel there are way to many animals that need loving families to spend large amounts on a dog that was bred for "purpose and functionality." But also, that is me stating from an inexperienced perspective when it comes to dogs. Hurley is my first dog. As more experience as a dog owner comes I may think about getting into owning pedigree dogs and maybe get into shows but right now, I am just content learning how to be a good and loving owner.

[Cherrie-Nanook-Indy]

Here's a question. How would you ever get KC registration for a dog thats parents doesn't have KC papers? Eg (and this is completely hypothetical) Kaya is reg'd with dog lovers, what if we wanted to breed from her (we don't BTW) and wanted to "create" a new line / our own Kennals? Would it ever be possible? Would we have to breed her, then her pups, then their pups etc for years and years to prove the line? Just curious, it's not something we ever intend to do just wondered how it would be done. Thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The answer is very simple - you wouldn't! If a dog's parents aren't registered with a recognised Kennel Club, it will be impossible to ever register them. The whole point of KC registration is that ancestry can be followed back over many generations. Every single Siberian Husky in the world is descended from about 12 of the original imports from Siberia to Alaska in the early years of the 20th Century. With registration from a recognised Kennel Club (the UK's KC, the AKC in the US or the CKC in Canada etc etc) you can follow your dog's pedigree right back to those original dogs. Perhaps more importantly, you can research the health of those ancestors to ensure that your prospective puppy is likely to be healthy (as long as all the parental health tests have been carried out down the line). Without KC registration, you can do none of these things.

Wouldn't it ever be possible tho if say in 30 years I have a dog descendant from one of mine now that I can prove the line back 30 years? Couldn't I then register that pup? Not that we are thinking of ever doing it mind. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[raindog]

Wouldn't it ever be possible tho if say in 30 years I have a dog descendant from one of mine now that I can prove the line back 30 years? Couldn't I then register that pup? Not that we are thinking of ever doing it mind. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Unfortunately no - as the only "proof" the KC would accept is proof of unbroken KC registration. Siberian Huskies were first registered with the AKC in 1930 and anyone with a dog registered with a recognised Kennel Club should be able to trace their dogs back to the original registered dogs and beyond them to the original imports. 

[Cherrie-Nanook-Indy]

Thank you - my questions answered Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Keeonah]

The answer is very simple - you wouldn't!  If a dog's parents aren't registered with a recognised Kennel Club, it will be impossible to ever register them.

 

The whole point of KC registration is that ancestry can be followed back over many generations. Every single Siberian Husky in the world is descended from about 12 of the original imports from Siberia to Alaska in the early years of the 20th Century. With registration from a recognised Kennel Club (the UK's KC, the AKC in the US or the CKC in Canada etc etc) you can follow your dog's pedigree right back to those original dogs. Perhaps more importantly, you can research the health of those ancestors to ensure that your prospective puppy is likely to be healthy (as long as all the parental health tests have been carried out down the line). Without KC registration, you can do none of these things.

 

As to the value of KC registration in general, as far as I am concerned, KC registration is only one of a number of factors which should be researched thoroughly at if you are looking to buy a puppy from a breeder (as opposed to rehoming a rescued dog). These are the factors I would look for:

 

 

• Are the dogs being bred Kennel Club registered and are the pups KC registered. KC registration is not a 100% guarantee, but it is a strong indication that the pedigree of your dog is accurate and honest. If the mother, father or the pups are not KC registered, beat a hasty retreat at that point. Note: there are other dog registration organisations in the UK but their registrations are not worth the paper they are written on. If it ain’t KC, don’t buy it!

 

• Do the breeders work and/or show their dogs? If not, why are they breeding? Most good breeders breed litters to improve their teams either for the showring, the trail or both. If they are doing neither you have to assume that their main motivation is cash! - not the best reason for breeding dogs

 

• How easy do they make it to buy a puppy? If you don’t get the (friendly) third degree about your knowledge of the breed, the security of your house and garden etc, it is unlikely that they are a responsible breeder. Will they let you see the mum and dad and all their other dogs? You can learn a lot from the condition and temperament of the adult dogs in a breeder’s kennel. More often than not the breeder will have gone “outside†for a mating, so they won’t actually own the stud dog, but they should be able to show you pictures, pedigree and health certification for the dad as well as the mum.

 

•  Have the appropriate health tests for the breed been carried out on the parents? Although as a breed, the Siberian Husky is very healthy, all responsible breeders will screen their dogs for hereditary defects. In particular they should be checked for hip and eye defects. Ask if the parents of the puppies are tested and ask to see the results.

 

•  How old is the mother and how many litters has she had? No bitch should be bred before the age of 2 years or after the age of 7. There should be at least a year between successive matings and no bitch should have more than three litters in her lifetime.

 

•  Was the litter planned or was it “accidentalâ€?  If you are told that the litter can’t be registered because the mating was “accidental†and the bitch was too young/too old etc etc etc, walk away. Post mating contraceptive injections have been available from vets for years and there is no excuse for “accidental†matings. It is surprising how many bad breeders have “accidental†mating after “ accidental†mating.

 

•  Will the breeder expect you to sign a contract of sale in which you undertake to return the dog direct to the breeder if for any reason you cannot keep it, and in which you acknowledge that the dog has breeding/export restrictions on its KC papers and cannot be bred from without agreement from the breeder? All responsible breeders will insist upon this for the protection of the dog.

 

If you find a breeder who ticks all these boxes, you have found a pretty good breeder. Unfortunately the vast majority of breeders in the UK (and I imagine elsewhere too) are not good breeders and are more interested in the money they can make than they are in the welfare of the breed. Since founding SHWA(UK) six years ago, we have taken in and rehomed almost 700 unwanted Siberians. Of these only THREE (ie less than half of one percent) were bred by breeders who ticked all the above boxes and, of course, as soon as these breeders knew we had their dogs in rescue they took them back immediately and rehomed them themselves. The rest were  "breeders" whose primary interest in breeding was financial, so, if you want to support breeders who are only interested in your money, buy a non-KC registered puppy. If not, find a breeder who ticks all the above boxes or rehome a rescue dog - God knows there are enough of the poor things!!

Having read through this I can say that I mostly agree with everything except point 2. We neither work or show our dogs at the moment but we certainly did not breed them for money, although at the moment the money would most certainly be handy, if my motives were purely for money then why am I being so particular about who has them and why have I still got 3 of the 5 pups born. It seems like, as with a lot of things, your damned if you do and your damned if you don't  and you should never assume anything. If you don't know or you would like to know, ASK. If you don't like the answer, you have legs, you can walk away.

 

 

Gary.

[sharloid]

Having read through this I can say that I mostly agree with everything except point 2. We neither work or show our dogs at the moment but we certainly did not breed them for money, although at the moment the money would most certainly be handy, if my motives were purely for money then why am I being so particular about who has them and why have I still got 3 of the 5 pups born. It seems like, as with a lot of things, your damned if you do and your damned if you don't  and you should never assume anything. If you don't know or you would like to know, ASK. If you don't like the answer, you have legs, you can walk away.

 

 

Gary.

 

If it's not for working, showing nor money what is your motivation for breeding? 

[Mark-Akasha-Kenzo]

i researched the breed for a long time and came to the conclusion i had to go KC,  a good breeder as all information i read would give me a dog that would have less health issues in various forms in its life , thats why i went for a KC registered pup, but with my second pup i went to see the ''breeder'' and was introduced over 2/3 days to both parents, both KC Registered but was informed they were not having the litter registered, seemed strange to me at the time but hey, i loved my little one...

SO KC registered doesnt always have to mean a ''better'' dog...

ive met many none KC registered dogs since and many dont have health issues.. ( can of worms to some people) its your choice, registered or not, Rescue or not... as long as you love them ....

[Keeonah]

If it's not for working, showing nor money what is your motivation for breeding? 

We only bred ours due to mis-information as did my daughter. I wouldn't mind but the information came from a breeder. Serves me right for not being on this site at the time. But it was decided that as things had been done wrong from that point of view I would make sure that I got the rest right, hence, ensuring that they all went to good homes or they didn't go. I have had so many time wasters and idiots trying to get my dogs that in the end I said sod it they stay, my mistake I'll live with it. The adverts are no longer out there so it's only people with the old ads. Don't get me wrong, I would love to be able to show but I don't feel that I know enough about showing to get through it and I have been told that there are a lot of "snobby types " out there that have a tendency to look down their noses at you rather than point you in the right direction. I'm sure, to, that there are quite a few decent people out there that would put themselves out to help which is why, in the next few days, I may well be putting that question up on the forum.  Unfortunately I don't do being looked at like that and I hate people that whisper about you behind your back, In my mind if you have something constructive to say, fine, say it, if you haven't, shut up.  I'm sure that a good number of you out there know, and have experienced, what I mean only to well.

 

Gary.

[raindog]

We only bred ours due to mis-information as did my daughter. I wouldn't mind but the information came from a breeder. Serves me right for not being on this site at the time. But it was decided that as things had been done wrong from that point of view I would make sure that I got the rest right, hence, ensuring that they all went to good homes or they didn't go. I have had so many time wasters and idiots trying to get my dogs that in the end I said sod it they stay, my mistake I'll live with it. The adverts are no longer out there so it's only people with the old ads. Don't get me wrong, I would love to be able to show but I don't feel that I know enough about showing to get through it and I have been told that there are a lot of "snobby types " out there that have a tendency to look down their noses at you rather than point you in the right direction. I'm sure, to, that there are quite a few decent people out there that would put themselves out to help which is why, in the next few days, I may well be putting that question up on the forum.  Unfortunately I don't do being looked at like that and I hate people that whisper about you behind your back, In my mind if you have something constructive to say, fine, say it, if you haven't, shut up.  I'm sure that a good number of you out there know, and have experienced, what I mean only to well.

 

Gary.

 

Your post kinda makes my point. If you don't know enough about showing (which when it comes down to it is just about one person - the judge - giving his/her informed opinion about how close to the breed standard your dog is) then you are unlikely to know enough about the breed's conformation and character to be able to ascertain whether or not your dog is actually a good enough example to breed from. Some 99% of the dogs which come in to our rescue for rehoming have been bred by less than ethical, less than knowledgable breeders. Of those, I would estimate that at least 80% have fairly major faults - incorrect angulation, bad ear set, curly tails, round eyes, faulty fronts, bad shoulders etc etc - and that is before you start to get into health issues like eye and hip problems.

 

Mick

[Keeonah]

Why is it, that all of a sudden, I feel like I'm being made out to be the bad guy here. Trust me I feel bad enough about being an idiot and not checking the information that I/we were given. On the flip side, when you're given the information from an experienced breeder you don't expect to have to check it up, you take it as gospel. I can see the point you are making Mick but when you don't know and are fed crap info what do you do. I'm willing to learn all I can but at the end of the day I can only learn if people are prepared to teach. I love my dogs and want to do the best I can by them.  The whole idea of joining this site was to be educated by people that know the breed and can help me to know my dogs better. 

 

Gary.

[Stormy]

Why is it, that all of a sudden, I feel like I'm being made out to be the bad guy here. Trust me I feel bad enough about being an idiot and not checking the information that I/we were given. On the flip side, when you're given the information from an experienced breeder you don't expect to have to check it up, you take it as gospel. I can see the point you are making Mick but when you don't know and are fed crap info what do you do. I'm willing to learn all I can but at the end of the day I can only learn if people are prepared to teach. I love my dogs and want to do the best I can by them.  The whole idea of joining this site was to be educated by people that know the breed and can help me to know my dogs better. 

 

Gary.

Hey we sometimes get given incorrect information it is not your fault atall You know now what is the correct way and what information you need to know etc but what happened happened and i feel you want to do the best for your dogs and we all have to start somewhere  

[Julieanne]

i researched the breed for a long time and came to the conclusion i had to go KC,  a good breeder as all information i read would give me a dog that would have less health issues in various forms in its life , thats why i went for a KC registered pup, but with my second pup i went to see the ''breeder'' and was introduced over 2/3 days to both parents, both KC Registered but was informed they were not having the litter registered, seemed strange to me at the time but hey, i loved my little one...

SO KC registered doesnt always have to mean a ''better'' dog...

ive met many none KC registered dogs since and many dont have health issues.. ( can of worms to some people) its your choice, registered or not, Rescue or not... as long as you love them ....

I'm not saying this is the case though if both parents are registered while the litter is not it wouldn't hurt to ask if the parents were on the limited register. This is done by breeders to protect the breed by making sure that breeding is done by those who they trust and who have dogs of breeding quality.

Though every situation is different and they could have just decided not to like you said. 

[raindog]

Why is it, that all of a sudden, I feel like I'm being made out to be the bad guy here. Trust me I feel bad enough about being an idiot and not checking the information that I/we were given. On the flip side, when you're given the information from an experienced breeder you don't expect to have to check it up, you take it as gospel. I can see the point you are making Mick but when you don't know and are fed crap info what do you do. I'm willing to learn all I can but at the end of the day I can only learn if people are prepared to teach. I love my dogs and want to do the best I can by them.  The whole idea of joining this site was to be educated by people that know the breed and can help me to know my dogs better. 

 

Gary.

 

I don't think anyone is treating you as "the bad guy" - no-one comes into a dog breed knowing everything - even after 20 years with the breed I am still learning new stuff every single day and expect to continue that for as long as I am around and sentient. The important thing is to do what you are doing and learn from (1) your own experience (including your mistakes - we all make them!);  (2)  from other people's experience (this will enable you to learn from other people's mistakes); and (3) from the huge amount of information about the breed which is available.

 

Mick