Maya's Behavior

[MidnightPaws]

So Maya will continuously pin Sophie and other dogs that are submissive or small or are puppies to the ground. I wouldn't mind if it was just every once in a while but she does it all the time. It's like she doesn't know how to play with a dog without pinning it to the ground. When she does pin them she keeps them there and they usually scream bloody murder. But i know she isn't exactly hurting them.

 

I took her to play with my friends German shepherd who would let Maya take her to the ground so Maya did it constantly and the shepherd only whimpered a bit. Maya also will sometimes spin them around while their on the ground. It's all Maya will do with Sophie, If i call Sophie over to me Maya will jump her and pin her to the ground, if Sophie crosses Maya's path she'll pin her. If their outside Maya will chase her around and pin her over and over again and then i have a muddy dog to clean up. Now that we have Kay Maya will grab Sophie's neck and either pin her or hump her and she does this all day.

 

Kay doesn't exactly let Maya pin her and usually if Maya does Kay gets all snarly and tries to start a fight like usual. Maya will pin little dogs and puppies more then she'll pin larger dogs. So i don't exactly know how to get her to stop, when she does it to Sophie i'll tell her enough and she stops but only till i leave the room and she's back to it. She gets this happy face and big eyed look when she does it or is about to pin another dog. It's so hard to get her to stop and even when i do she just goes right back to it.

 

So is a timeout a suitable punishment? Or is it something that i don't need to stop? i plan to take her to the dog park once i get a licence, leave a long lead on her, and remove her from play when she does this to a non-husky dog. But i didn't know if i should stop her from doing this to Sophie too.

[Elyse]

By what you explained, it sounds like she's just being a dominant/confident dog. My boy is dominant/confident, and he mounts other dogs all the time...sometimes he does it in play too.

 

More on dog body language here:

 

How old is Maya?

[MidnightPaws]

Maya's 4 years old, she's definitely a confident dominant dog. She's never been pinned down, she has been humped by Kay on occasion but she'll just butt swish Kay off of her. She will get into small fights at the dog park with other dominant dogs (all noise and usually only a couple sec long), usually only if they chase her and bite her on the butt.

[MidnightPaws]

I've got an older video of her and Sophie before we got Kay.

 

http://youtu.be/wZwQ-zDbG2M

[Christine0925]

Meeka doesn't do any of the pinning you describe but I do know that video was nothing to worry about, mine grumble and snarl and hair is flying. Meeka does tend to be "top dog" and she doesn't like overly submissive dogs, she almost nips at them to say toughen up, but she will submit to other dogs when necissary. Sorry I can't help but best of luck

[Removed #2]

Sophie starts out with a body slam and wants to play....our Andy does that all the time.  That's actually a dominance move, and it looks like Maya says, no , you are not in charge.  Looks like normal husky play to me.  Nobody growling and no "hackles" standing up, so I wouldn't worry.  Sorry if I got the names wrong.  I am not sure though I would take her to the dog park as many dogs might be the dominant ones and she could get a whoopin', but maybe that's what she needs.  Maybe these two videos will make you feel better.  The first one was before our walk, and Jack had been here about 6 months and never played with another husky before Andy.  If you watch on the second...Andy invites Jessy to play (like in your video) and then proceeds to let her beat the crap out of him, and he is the alpha in the pack of 3.

http://youtu.be/khfvECoYn-Q

 

http://youtu.be/jGkybSH_3qc

[MidnightPaws]

Lol, the first video reminds me of Kay and Sophie play and you got their names right. So i shouldn't worry about Maya pinning Sophie but what about with other dogs? I used to take her to the dog park a lot but lately when Megan and i would take her she would get into small fights with other dominate dogs, she's been put in her place multiple times. I don't mind it much because there's never been injuries but it's the other owners i worry about. I had stopped taking her and then stopped going all together whenever Megan asked me if i wanted to go. Because i got tired of the other owners getting mad at Maya and kicking her or things like that.

[Applebear]

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but I seriously was just about to post something similar and hope it is ok to add on.  I am noticing in the videos there is a lot of neck grabbing. Ro does this too, the only problem is he's doing to dogs way too small and he IS hurting them and NOT stopping when they cry out. He will lift them up off the ground...which to me, is too rough [esp when the other dog is telling him so]. He also wraps them in his paws and lays on them, it soon becomes so one sided and the only one enjoying themselves is Ro.

 

He doesn't bother dogs that snap at him right off the bat, but if they are shy/submissive, greet him in any way or encourage play, he just plows them down and then grabs them by the neck...with that he has very poor boundaries, as when he meets a dog-he doesn't do the usual butt sniffing and allow them to do the same, it's 'you didn't snap or growl me away, I get to play!" Is there something I can do to help him understand when he's being too rough? I have tried a few things, but none of them are working. I don't think he's purposely trying to hurt them, but he doesn't seem to get it when they are in pain and telling him to stop. Even if they start to growl and snap trying to make their point clearer...he doesn't stop.

 

I see a lot "this is normal," and I get that...I know huskies play rough, but sometimes it's just not possible when the other dog can't take that hard play. He never bothers my little dog, but he [little dog] makes it clear from start, "we're not playing...ever." I wish there was a nice in between for him, but it's always no play at all [dog says I don't want to FROM START] or yay you want to play, I'm going to plow, grab and drag you even when you cry stop! It's clear my attempts to remedy this are failing. Since I am getting a chow pup in April, it is important for me to start learning some methods to deal with this...if anyone can help me, I would appreciate it.

[MidnightPaws]

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but I seriously was just about to post something similar and hope it is ok to add on.  I am noticing in the videos there is a lot of neck grabbing. Ro does this too, the only problem is he's doing to dogs way too small and he IS hurting them and NOT stopping when they cry out. He will lift them up off the ground...which to me, is too rough [esp when the other dog is telling him so]. He also wraps them in his paws and lays on them, it soon becomes so one sided and the only one enjoying themselves is Ro.

 

He doesn't bother dogs that snap at him right off the bat, but if they are shy/submissive, greet him in any way or encourage play, he just plows them down and then grabs them by the neck...with that he has very poor boundaries, as when he meets a dog-he doesn't do the usual butt sniffing and allow them to do the same, it's 'you didn't snap or growl me away, I get to play!" Is there something I can do to help him understand when he's being too rough? I have tried a few things, but none of them are working. I don't think he's purposely trying to hurt them, but he doesn't seem to get it when they are in pain and telling him to stop. Even if they start to growl and snap trying to make their point clearer...he doesn't stop.

 

I see a lot "this is normal," and I get that...I know huskies play rough, but sometimes it's just not possible when the other dog can't take that hard play. He never bothers my little dog, but he [little dog] makes it clear from start, "we're not playing...ever." I wish there was a nice in between for him, but it's always no play at all [dog says I don't want to FROM START] or yay you want to play, I'm going to plow, grab and drag you even when you cry stop! It's clear my attempts to remedy this are failing. Since I am getting a chow pup in April, it is important for me to start learning some methods to deal with this...if anyone can help me, I would appreciate it.

 

It's perfectly okay to add on. 

 

Sounds a lot like the way Maya is with other dogs.

[Applebear]

Thanks for letting me join in, hopefully we both can find some nice solutions.

[LittleLuka]

I've never had this issue with Luka until yesterday actually. He's usually pretty submissive and just a big happy boy.

However yesterday Knox was playing with another pit mix puppy about his size and Luka would come over and basically just mail him. Grabbed the puppy by his neck and just rolled him over and pinned him down. The puppy screamed (I think more out of fear than pain) and I had to keep separating Luka. Finally we wound up leaving because I was worried he would accidentally hurt him. He was growling as he was doing it but I think he was playing.

I'd like to hear what a solution is. Knox and Luka play rough and it's fine but with other owners I feel uncomfortable because they don't know how my dogs temperament is. He loves the dog park and I'd hate if we couldn't go anymore but I can't have him bullying small dogs every time we go. There are separated parks regarding to size but people are constantly bringing their small dogs in the large park.

I also wonder if Luka is just becoming more dominant because he's reaching a year old. He's def the alpha over Knox and he makes sure know knows it.

[LittleLuka]

Maul * not mail

[Removed #2]

I will never go to a dog park again and I have only gone once.  It was a husky gathering, so there were a lot of them and then there was the lady with the mini poodle and the group of 5 huskies that gathered around it.  Suffice it to say we were the only humans watching our huskies so when her poodle started to bleed and chirp, Jack was blamed.  She sued us.  It was ugly, very very ugly.  $7,000 later (thank goodness for insurance) we will never go to another dog park because....you cannot rely on other owners to do the right thing.  There were other huskies that could have caused the harm to this pup, and because we were the only humans, and my partner is very trusting and gave this woman his name....well, you got the rest.  We never talk about it anymore, because it comes down to not what is right, but ownership and money.  So, go to the dog park at your own risk with your dominant dog.  Jack is not even a dominant guy, he's a giant marshmallow, but it sounds like the others in this thread that owners are worried about may not have been adequately socialized, just like Jack also.  As you can see from video, Jessy, being the tiny bug she is, can take down a 20lb heavier husky without a thought!  Sometimes they let her, but Jack is petrified and has to trick her and then run like crazy to "safe" which is the deck.  The neck and shake thing is husky play, but we also think Andy ended up in the system because he did that to a cat.  Ooops, well, we aren't cat people and don't think it's fair to put a husky in that position, no matter how long they may have lived together.  Off my soap box now.

[Mobezilla]

I will never go to a dog park again and I have only gone once.  It was a husky gathering, so there were a lot of them and then there was the lady with the mini poodle and the group of 5 huskies that gathered around it.  Suffice it to say we were the only humans watching our huskies so when her poodle started to bleed and chirp, Jack was blamed.  She sued us.  It was ugly, very very ugly.  $7,000 later (thank goodness for insurance) we will never go to another dog park because....you cannot rely on other owners to do the right thing.  There were other huskies that could have caused the harm to this pup, and because we were the only humans, and my partner is very trusting and gave this woman his name....well, you got the rest.  We never talk about it anymore, because it comes down to not what is right, but ownership and money.  So, go to the dog park at your own risk with your dominant dog.  Jack is not even a dominant guy, he's a giant marshmallow, but it sounds like the others in this thread that owners are worried about may not have been adequately socialized, just like Jack also.  As you can see from video, Jessy, being the tiny bug she is, can take down a 20lb heavier husky without a thought!  Sometimes they let her, but Jack is petrified and has to trick her and then run like crazy to "safe" which is the deck.  The neck and shake thing is husky play, but we also think Andy ended up in the system because he did that to a cat.  Ooops, well, we aren't cat people and don't think it's fair to put a husky in that position, no matter how long they may have lived together.  Off my soap box now.

I know the Indiana group is looking into private dog parks where they can see if they can reserve the park for a private one day husky meet up where other dogs can't come, I think that'd be cool.. sorry you had to go through something like that. :[

[LittleLuka]

I will never go to a dog park again and I have only gone once.  It was a husky gathering, so there were a lot of them and then there was the lady with the mini poodle and the group of 5 huskies that gathered around it.  Suffice it to say we were the only humans watching our huskies so when her poodle started to bleed and chirp, Jack was blamed.  She sued us.  It was ugly, very very ugly.  $7,000 later (thank goodness for insurance) we will never go to another dog park because....you cannot rely on other owners to do the right thing.  There were other huskies that could have caused the harm to this pup, and because we were the only humans, and my partner is very trusting and gave this woman his name....well, you got the rest.  We never talk about it anymore, because it comes down to not what is right, but ownership and money.  So, go to the dog park at your own risk with your dominant dog.  Jack is not even a dominant guy, he's a giant marshmallow, but it sounds like the others in this thread that owners are worried about may not have been adequately socialized, just like Jack also.  As you can see from video, Jessy, being the tiny bug she is, can take down a 20lb heavier husky without a thought!  Sometimes they let her, but Jack is petrified and has to trick her and then run like crazy to "safe" which is the deck.  The neck and shake thing is husky play, but we also think Andy ended up in the system because he did that to a cat.  Ooops, well, we aren't cat people and don't think it's fair to put a husky in that position, no matter how long they may have lived together.  Off my soap box now.

 

that's exactly what i would worry about! i'm really sorry you had to go through that mess. luka has never acted aggressive but i do think it's irresponsible for owners to bring their small tiny dog into a large dog park and then get all upset when there dog bites off more than it can chew. luka has never been involved in one of the fights at the park but he does pick on smaller dogs. it's a shame that we may have to stop going because people are ignorant.

 

if i had a tiny dog that barked at every one it would stay at home or go to the small dog area.

[Mobezilla]

that's exactly what i would worry about! i'm really sorry you had to go through that mess. luka has never acted aggressive but i do think it's irresponsible for owners to bring their small tiny dog into a large dog park and then get all upset when there dog bites off more than it can chew. luka has never been involved in one of the fights at the park but he does pick on smaller dogs. it's a shame that we may have to stop going because people are ignorant.

 

if i had a tiny dog that barked at every one it would stay at home or go to the small dog area.

When I go to husky meet-ups, I leave Cloud at home. or if my mom isnt home I take him to day-care. 

[Austinville]

Removed.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Austinville

[Mobezilla]

I would begin by setting boundaries with your husky while playing with your own smaller breed. There is such a thing as pack order without such problems. Mya needs to learn that she can be the dominate one without having to overrun the smaller dog. It takes time and it's not easy, but your best information will come from seeing and understanding that micro-second of notification that Mya is providing you, but you just aren't attuned to yet. Of course, this may require someone else teaching you what to watch for (I really don't know how to explain what you'll be looking for, I just know when I see it.)

 

Once Mya learns the boundaries at home, and you've learned to stop the actions, then and only then (IMO) can you safely return to the dog park or other places where Mya interacts with other canines.

Just wanted to add in that Abby only has Maya, Sophie, and Kay that are all huskies she doesnt have any small dogs.

[MidnightPaws]

Just wanted to add in that Abby only has Maya, Sophie, and Kay that are all huskies she doesnt have any small dogs.

Nope i don't have any small dogs, we did once but the way she acted with him caused him to have fear aggression with other dogs and we re-homed him.

[Austinville]

Just wanted to add in that Abby only has Maya, Sophie, and Kay that are all huskies she doesnt have any small dogs.

My apologies. I'll remove my post.

[Applebear]

I don't go to dog parks, not that we have any available. Nor would I let Ro rough house with a small dog like that...my friends dogs are corgis, not super fragile but he's simply not knowing when enough is enough or what is 'too much.' He respects the growl and snap from my little dog, and they are never left unsupervised regardless. So basically I'm hearing 'this is husky, not much you can do.'

[Mobezilla]

My apologies. I'll remove my post.

It was good advice though! I think the issue is small dogs at the dog park. A lot of people are kinda stupid and bring puppies over to the big side even though it says 35 pounds +. There were three 4 month old lab puppies there yesterday and Yuki rough housed with them a bit, but I had to leash her and leave because the owners were all acting like Yuki was killing them. I wonder if its an issue of our pups not being socialized enough, or maybe people not understanding the difference between play and aggression? Yuki has grown up with a small dog and been socialized at the dog park since she was 16 weeks old, and from what I can tell she is just playing, not being aggressive whatsoever.

[MidnightPaws]

It was good advice though! I think the issue is small dogs at the dog park. A lot of people are kinda stupid and bring puppies over to the big side even though it says 35 pounds +. There were three 4 month old lab puppies there yesterday and Yuki rough housed with them a bit, but I had to leash her and leave because the owners were all acting like Yuki was killing them. I wonder if its an issue of our pups not being socialized enough, or maybe people not understanding the difference between play and aggression? Yuki has grown up with a small dog and been socialized at the dog park since she was 16 weeks old, and from what I can tell she is just playing, not being aggressive whatsoever.

Maya isn't being aggressive when she does it, no hackles up and no growling whatsoever. Well maybe a play growl here and there but i know the difference of her play and i'm going to whoop your butt growl. It's like she goes into prey mode and just gets into this zone when she does it.

[Removed #1]

Sometimes "it's a Husky thing" gets to be cliché.  In these two instances it seems there are dogs involved who aren't practicing good bite inhibition, and who aren't stopping unwanted behavior when other dogs are signaling that what their doing is causing them pain.  Yes huskies play pretty rough, we know this.  That doesn't mean that when we recognize potentially dangerous behavior that we ignore it or just chalk it up to our furbabies being too rough.  Socializing is more than just being exposed to other dogs.  I think sometimes we forget that. 

 

When dogs are trying to establish order when meeting new dogs it's super important that they know how to do it without causing injury to dogs they meet.  Not a big fan of dog parks personally, because you can't force other people to control or watch over their dogs and really after reading about what happened to Nanci and Jeff.  Wow...thank god for insurance. 

 

I suppose my whole point here is that you've identified behaviors that put your dogs and other people's dogs at risk and now that you've done that, working with them to encourage appropriate interactions with other dogs is your responsibility.  If you know that you're going to continue to use dog parks, make sure you have a long lead so that you can immediately intervene.  Get into contact with people you know and trust who have dogs that know how to interact with others without causing pain or injury and work with them, listen to them, make corrections. 

 

Anywho...just my 2cents.

[Removed #2]

Sometimes "it's a Husky thing" gets to be cliché.  In these two instances it seems there are dogs involved who aren't practicing good bite inhibition, and who aren't stopping unwanted behavior when other dogs are signaling that what their doing is causing them pain.  Yes huskies play pretty rough, we know this.  That doesn't mean that when we recognize potentially dangerous behavior that we ignore it or just chalk it up to our furbabies being too rough.  Socializing is more than just being exposed to other dogs.  I think sometimes we forget that. 

 

When dogs are trying to establish order when meeting new dogs it's super important that they know how to do it without causing injury to dogs they meet.  Not a big fan of dog parks personally, because you can't force other people to control or watch over their dogs and really after reading about what happened to Nanci and Jeff.  Wow...thank god for insurance. 

 

I suppose my whole point here is that you've identified behaviors that put your dogs and other people's dogs at risk and now that you've done that, working with them to encourage appropriate interactions with other dogs is your responsibility.  If you know that you're going to continue to use dog parks, make sure you have a long lead so that you can immediately intervene.  Get into contact with people you know and trust who have dogs that know how to interact with others without causing pain or injury and work with them, listen to them, make corrections. 

 

Anywho...just my 2cents.

Understand, there were 4-5 huskies, Jack was one of them, the woman who owned the chirping poodle had her back turned to the dog and frankly, nobody really knows what happened because there were all these huskies gathered, and the little dog.  We aren't even certain and we were both there.  So yes, if your dog is giving you signs, then by all means, either train or don't go.  Jack is a big marshmallow, and the vet could not believe what happened, as Jack runs away from Jessy when she rolls her lip and snipes at him and looks for cover and protection from one of us....but he also loves a stuffed animal, as do most huskies, not all, but jack just wants to unstuff it.