Loripot Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Found useful advice elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDogLove Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I hate being the first person to post on this topic because I don't feel like I am the most qualified person to be giving you advice... However, don't take the growling personally, it is not a sign of aggression, just an automatic response. He probably already knows you are in charge because you are his source of food and you take it when you please, but swatting at him while he eats is only going to make him afraid of eating in front of you, the same way that swatting a dog for pottying inside will make them afraid of pottying in front of you. All of my dogs allow me to take their food from them and pet them while they eat but Cara has growled at me once when she was younger (she's more of a resource guarder than any of the others). She did not get a slap for it, I just simply took her food from her. She did not snap at me, she just looked up at me and waited for me to give it back. The growling is just a way of protesting, like "Don't take that!" and comes out automatically when something they are enjoying is being taken from them. He already knows you are in charge so he won't snap at you, it's just his way of saying he'd rather you didn't take away this thing that he is enjoying. I definitely think the behavior of him not enjoying his treat in front of you is due to the swatting, so that should probably be something you cut out of his punishment routine. Aggression toward dogs only causes more aggressive dogs, or dogs that are so frightened that they become skiddish and begin lashing out at people and other things - of course that is normally in abusive cases. I do hope someone else will reply to this as well that has a little more insight to dog behavior, but that was my two cents. Good luck with your puppy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clare70 Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I agree with everything Elizabeth has said. It maybe your pup is becoming more vocal as he's getting older and more settled with you, at 13 weeks you can't have had him for very long. Growling is a form of communication and basically he was saying 'please don't touch my food whilst I'm eating'. By you scolding him for growling will only make him confused and possibly he won't bother to growl next time, just bite. Some dogs do guard their food, one of mine does and we feed him by hand. We hold his bowl whilst he eats so he knows I'm giving it to him rather than him taking it from me. I can now leave his bowl for him to eat but he doesn't touch it unless I'm holding it for him. As for treats I'd go back to basics, just giving him small pieces at a time by hand until you've built his confidance back up. Once he's happy i'd then give him a bigger treat whereby he can go and eat it on his own. Lets face it if someone gave you a box of chocolates and mid way through eating them they took them away, you'd complain. that's what your dog is doing. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loripot Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Thanks for the responses guys. I understand everything you're saying, though I must say I don't agree. A dog should not growl at all whatever the situation. I know huskies are vocal breeds, but there's making noises to express certain emotions, and there's growling. And to me, growling should not be tolerated. I do feel bad for slapping him and possibly making him nervous, but at the same time he shouldn't have growled at me. I was only sitting near him. That's not acceptable. I believe behaviour like that if ignored grows worse. He will think he can get away with it and will only get more aggressive with age. Are you saying you'd allow your dogs to growl at you for being near them while they eat? Sorry but I don't agree with that! Any advice on how to positively stop his behaviour? Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loripot Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I just want to add that he growled before I did anything. If we simply went near him, he'd growl. It was nothing to do with taking his food away. So I can't see why that should make him feel threatened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erinc Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Was it a full on, bearing teeth growl? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDogLove Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 If a dog growling is something you have an issue with then you may have picked the wrong breed. My dogs sound like they're going to kill each other when they play rough. And yes, my dogs have growled at me and Cody when we get near them while they're enjoying a treat. We just pat them and say, "Heyyy" as if to say they don't need to worry about us being there. He probably is growling at you for sitting next to him now because he is anticipating being hit and having his treat taken away since this is how you've reacted thus far. If growling persists, take the treat away, some dogs can't handle them. I rarely give my dogs food-type treats because of negative behavior that can persist. Give him chew toys instead, things that are not meant to be eaten. Growling does not turn into something more aggressive unless you make it by reacting negatively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 The problem you'll find is if you scold him for growling , he'll just learn not to growl , he'll not give u that warning n just proceed to a bite that when people say he 'just turned out of the blue' if he growls just take it away don't hit him , dogs communicate with their sound so barking , growling , wooing , howling etc , none of these are bad u need to tech him that he doesn't need to growl when your near his food , not that growling is bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loripot Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 No teeth involved, just a low warning growl. Haha no I have no problem with the noises that they make. We play wrestle with Demon all the time and he may make funny sounds, but that's a lot different to being food aggressive. The two shouldn't even be compared. Playful growling is fine, aggressive/possessive is not. He's not just giving a playful growl, it is an angry warning, and I don't understand how any of you think that is okay. Maybe he shouldn't get food treats anymore. And this reaction was before we scolded him, so it wasn't as if he had any past experiences from it, as you're saying the growl was because he was anticipating a hit. It wasn't that. What's the reasoning for the first time growl? It's not right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loripot Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Growling isn't bad? Of course it is, it's terrible and he shouldn't be doing it, even if we were intending to steal his food. If in a pack of wolves, a lower rank tried to protect some food from the alpha, I'm sure the alpha would snap to put the wolf back in it's place. Surely if aggressive behaviour is ignored it will only continue and get worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahjng Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 At 13 weeks he's still a baby, he's settling into the routine of your home and may well chance his luck, the first growl came when you reached for his Kong while he was eating in his crate right ? At 13 weeks he's figured out that the crate belongs to him, the Kong belongs to him and he wanted HIS Kong in HIS crate. You mention the whole alpha wolf idea, he's a domestic dog not a wolf firstly, (and the whole theory of the alpha has been debunked in more recent extensive studies. ) and at 13 weeks if he was with other dogs he would still be living with a `puppy licence` in other words if he was still with his parents they would mostly put up with that sort of behaviour because he's still a baby. My boy let our new puppy get away with murder when we first got her, she would take toys and treats right out of his mouth, but it wasn't until she hit about 6 months that he started telling her off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDogLove Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 If you are that concerned with his growling, talk to a behaviorist. I think you'll find most of the owners on this forum are going to agree with the general consensus that growling is communication and is not necessarily a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loripot Posted January 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Let me clarify that he wasn't playing with the Kong when I reached for it. He was eating his food out of a bowl. He growled just because I went near him. I am shocked that most of you think that aggressive behaviour is okay. It wasn't just a sound of communication, it was a growl. There is something very wrong with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clare70 Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Huskies growl, fact! It's his way of telling you he's not happy about something. If he'd bared his teeth then that would be different, it would mean it's an aggressive growl, that he was angry. By the sounds of it he was telling you to lay off of his stuff, that's all. It's an easy misunderstanding to make, especially if you are not used to a husky. I'm not condoning his behaviour but it's important you understand why he growled. My almost 3 year old male will growl if I touch his rear end, he does this with everyone because I fear he was hit there before we rescued him. He's not being aggressive, he's just telling me he doesn't want to be touched there. Are you saying I should scold him for that? No I leave that area alone and give him a good old head rub instead. I'm sorry to say that huskies are a completely different breed to your average dog and are super sensitive and intelligent. I would seriously get the advice of a behaviourist used to dealing with huskies as I fear you may have an uphill struggle if you're not willing to adapt your methods. Huskies are also very stubborn and trying to 'brake' them can lead to disasterous consequences, I've seen it all too often and rescued 3 dogs because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBY Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 "A woman I sometimes chat with during my morning dog outings asked my opinion about an encounter she recently had. She’d been been walking her four-year-old mixed breed dog around a local park when she crossed paths with a man whose dog was off leash. As the owners walked toward each other on the narrow trail, the foot loose and fancy-free puppy ran up to the adult dog. With the usual lack of canine cluelessness that accompanies early dogdom, the pup leaped at the dog relentlessly in an attempt to initiate play. The woman’s dog, while not aggressive, did not want to be bothered. He growled. The puppy didn’t back off, and again tried to engage the older dog. The dog growled louder. The man made no attempt to put his dog on leash. The woman, feeling embarrassed that her dog had growled, ended up apologizing to the man and walking her dog away. The adult dog’s hackles might not have been up during the encounter, but mine certainly were. The woman’s dog had done nothing wrong. She had nothing to apologize for! Growling is a perfectly acceptable canine warning. It’s a dog’s way of saying, “Hey, I don’t like that,” “Don’t come any closer!” or “Please stop what you’re doing.” Being on leash, the adult dog didn’t have the option to leave. He could certainly have snapped at the puppy, or worse. But instead, he gave an appropriate warning. That the puppy didn’t buy a vowel, get a clue, and understand what was being spelled out was a problem, so the dog growled louder. Hopefully that puppy will learn to back off when adult dogs warn him away, before his puppy license expires and an adult dog cleans his clock. And hopefully the man will learn to leash his dog when encountering others. Understanding that a growl is a threat is hard-wired in humans, so it’s reasonable and even advantageous that we become upset when we hear one. But a growl from a dog is actually a good thing. I’m not suggesting that it’s a good thing for a dog to growl at his owner, but growling is a non-aggressive form of communication. Think about it. If someone kept shoving into you on line at the post office, you’d eventually say something like, “Excuse you!” But what if you didn’t have a way to warn the person that you were getting irritated? Eventually, you’d have to resort to either leaving, or physically getting your point across. Whether a dog is growling at another dog or a person, it’s simply a warning. If the dog wanted to attack, he would have. Growling is meant to avert aggression, not cause it.But people misunderstand, and punish dogs for growling. A dog then learns that growling leads to being punished and, unfortunately, once his early warning system has been removed, the dog is likely to begin biting with no warning. As a trainer, I’ve seen many dogs like that over the years and believe me, they’re no fun to rehabilitate. If a dog is growling at you, whether the dog belongs to you or someone else, the best course of action at the moment is to defuse the situation. After all, the dog’s arousal level is already elevated. You don’t want to shout or worse, get physical, as those things could lead to a bite. Instead, glance down and to the side (this tells the dog you’re not a threat while allowing you to keep him in your peripheral vision) and back away slowly. Don’t turn your back on the dog if you can help it, as some dogs are more prone to attack from the rear. If the dog in question is your own, address the situation that caused the growling—for example, food guarding—at another time when your dog is calm, with the assistance of a professional trainer if necessary. Remember, growling is simply communication. If we take a moment to assess why a dog is growling instead of automatically taking the attitude that he’s behaving inappropriately, we will react appropriately ourselves." The worst thing you could do, is to teach a dog NOT to growl. It's his only way of saying "Please, stop" and if he's been taught that growling is bad he's gonna' go straight to biting with no warning growl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDogLove Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 I am shocked that most of you think that aggressive behaviour is okay. It wasn't just a sound of communication, it was a growl. There is something very wrong with this. I think you need to do some research on dog communication. Do a quick Google search and the articles will tell you the same thing we are telling you, that growling is not aggressive, just a form of communicating. If the growling were coupled with bared teeth, then you might have something to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3llyann Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Fully agree with other comments sorry x had exactly the same issues with my male for months and I too thought it was aggressive behaviour but as much as him growling is not acceptable I've saw my male in aggression mode when he was in pain at the vets and the vet went to mess with his poorly ear and trust me when I say it's completely different x what I did was every time he did it I took whatever he had away and I mean every time no exceptions i said firmly no and he did not get it back and I continued to repeat this as and when he tried it on x he's now nearly 14 months old and I can take anything away and go near him at any time x just stick with it and trust me it can be overcome with alot of patience and hard work .... don't think others are saying it's acceptable they just have alot of experience with huskies and most have seen the behaviour changes that occur when growing up as mine are both just over 1 and are still changing and throwing different challenges as they grow and mature so please don't take offence just take on the advice of some more experienced owners ( as I do as this is my first experience with huskies or dogs at all for that matter ) and some members have had years and years of the breed so I just take on board the advice and are very grateful for it ..... good luck with your little boy and I hope you both overcome the issues you're having as I have [emoji4] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 No one is saying it's ok to growl (depending on the growl , if my dogs Are unhappy I want them to tell me) you just have to be careful what your scolding , if your scolding for growling he'll learn not to growl n just use his teeth instead however correcting the behaviour which is making him growl is what u need to do , he was eating in his crate it might have been possible he felt cornered he wouldn't have known what u were reaching for just that he was enjoying his food and u 'threatened' that ( for want of a better word) the bone guarding is probably because u scolded him and he's worried you'll do it again , you slapped a puppy! U probably scared the living daylights out of his , positive reinforcement is better than negative punishment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmscott Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 · Hidden Hidden Growling isn't bad? Of course it is, it's terrible and he shouldn't be doing it, even if we were intending to steal his food. If in a pack of wolves, a lower rank tried to protect some food from the alpha, I'm sure the alpha would snap to put the wolf back in it's place. Surely if aggressive behaviour is ignored it will only continue and get worse. Growling is VERY good! A wolf pack doesn't work like that. They don't eat one at a time by pack rank, and even in domestic dogs with pack feeding they all tear at a carcass together. There is no alpha in a wolf pack either. A puppy is not going to try to be the boss. They may act like a cranky child and throw fits at times, but just as you wouldn't punish a child in the same way you would an adult, you cannot apply adult behavior to a puppy. Link to comment
jmscott Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 · Hidden Hidden Here we go. The very man who coined the phrase. Also: http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/14_12/features/Alpha-Dogs_20416-1.html Link to comment
SnowDogLove Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Good info Jaimie, too bad it wasn't considered "useful advice" by someone else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syne7 Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Hello, I understand you being taken back at your young puppy growling. I have a 9 year old husky and a 13 week old husky puppy myself. From a canine experience stand point, I was an MP (Military Police) K-9 Handler in the Army for several years. I was partnered with Patrol Dogs, Drug search Dogs, and Cadaever Dogs. These were either German Shepherd Dogs or Belgian Malinois. As I said, I certainly understand being concerned at growling and food guarding and not wanting that to turn into something worse or escalating. However, communicating with dogs can be difficult as they don't speak and we can't get feed back. My own puppy has growled at me over being near his food when he was 10 weeks, though he does not do that anymore. With such a stimulus, I suggest that one has two choices. Interact with the pup to suppress the growling, which could happen, or such actions could escalate the behavior or suppress it (perhaps leading to defensive aggression). The other option would be to figure out why the dog is growling and work on that. In my limited experience, dogs resource guard when they feel like the resource is at risk or is going to go away or be stolen. I would suggest sitting next to the pup when he eats and progressively help him/her to learn that food will not go away when you are near. I'd start by having some tasty treats and dropping them as you get near (further than when they growled the first time). Then progressively move to closer distances and ultimately trading the food for the bowl and giving it right back when the dog is done with treat. Over the period of a week you could solve this. From the puppy's perspective, you'll be holding his food and protecting it while he eats his treat. When he gets done you'll be the person that gives it right back to him. He should welcome your approach . I routinely trade my puppy for toys, food, treats, bones etc... to embed this trust and confidence. He was initally resource guarder of toys, food, and water. I would personally shy away for striking the pup, as they are impressionable at this age and could be scarred/imprinted by a negative experience. Ultimately, the best advice anyone could give you would be to consult a canine behavior specialist. I applaud you for identifying this issue and certainly agree you don't want your puppy to growl when you approach their food bowl. I am simply offering you some alternatives for how to best deal with the situation and achieve your stated goal. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loripot Posted January 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Thank you for being very friendly, understanding and considerate!! I'm glad someone gets me. I agree with everything you said, and has recently came to a similar conclusion myself. I have been working on this problem and so far, he hasn't growled at me since. So I am very happy. I totally disagree with anyone who believes growling and being possessive is okay. I think my pup may be beginning to relax and trust me when it comes to food. What I did was knock back on the bones for a while. (It seemed that he only got possessive over actual bones) I started by handling his food whilst he ate or holding the bowl for him, then I even took his bowl away for a moment and he was happy for me to do that. He'd just sit and wait for me to give it back. Then I reintroduced the bones and did exactly the same thing, and so far, no growling. Thanks for your response. Where were you earlier? I will keep your advice in mind in case anything like this resurfaces. Fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robke Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Thanks for your response. Where were you earlier? I will keep your advice in mind in case anything like this resurfaces. Fingers crossed. we have always been here...where have you been LOLOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Found useful advice elsewhere. Shame u felt the need to remove your post , it could have really helped other people , everyone on here gave u great advice with your problem perhaps you'd like to share this new advice with everyone to help others too? With regards to your last post too I would like to reiterate that no one said it was ok for your puppy to be possessive just that growling is their way of communication and stopping that can make them just resort to them biting instead no one said to not tackle the issue just to be careful on how u do so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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