valkyries Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 Karen i was told after i got her about her failing the assessment and to be very carefull as she can be a nasty bitch xxx so untrue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISDW Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 Karen i was told after i got her about her failing the assessment and to be very carefull as she can be a nasty bitch xxx so untrue It just shows though doesn't it, how the environment plays such a huge part in how they behave. Fear can make the most even tempered dog react badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkyries Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 in some cases they should assess the people they are with an not the dog, the foster home i got her from well what can i say, she was in a room with 4 other dogs she did not look like she'd seen a brush bless her. if she was assessed now i think she'd pass she's happy, fit and spoilt lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunc Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 How do we assess huskys to be re homed ? Does the husky you require re homing come with full pedigree papers ? No sorry it does not sorry ! Fail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid_Wolf Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 How do we assess huskys to be re homed ? Does the husky you require re homing come with full pedigree papers ? No sorry it does not sorry ! Fail HAHAHA Love it dunc SO true... Poor Kira wouldnt stand a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 lmao dunc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkyries Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 lol Dunc mine have no chance opppps hold on ones already failed xxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raindog Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 no dog should be put to sleep unless its for a medical reason, no dog is beyond the point of rehab. Been honest i aint to keen on how some of the rescue organisations operate reasons being if i went by there rules and regulations i shudnt have any huskies as i have small kids, also that i didnt have the right amount to spend with the huskies. In an ideal world I would agree with you. Unfortunately, we do not live in an ideal world. If a dog is human aggressive or dog-dog aggressive to a dangerous degree it is impossible for a rescue organisation like ours (SHWA) to take it on for a variety of reasons - some of which Karen has already detailed. For a start, where would we put it? We don't have a rescue kennel or professional behaviourists who can work one to one with an aggressive dog. What we have is a network of dedicated volunteers, some very experienced, some less so, all of whom have their own dogs, their own families and their own livelihoods to consider. We certainly don't have the funds to kennel a dog and pay for "therapy" when there are literally hundreds of other dogs who need our help. It might sound harsh, but when resources are scarce, hard decisions have to be made. We learned this the hard way several years ago when we discovered that a dog we were assessing in our home was suffering from rage syndrome - the result of brain damage after being hit with something. We only found out about his condition when the dog suddenly attacked me with no warning (none of the usual body language clues) and bit off the top joint of one of my fingers (luckily it was sewn back on successfully). I was off work for four weeks as a result. I shudder to think what might have happened if we hadn't discovered this problem though - if we had rehomed the dog to a family with small children, someone could have died! It was largely as a result of this experience that when we started SHWA(UK), we decided that all dogs coming in to rescue should be "double assessed" - first in the home of the existing owners, and secondly over a period of time (usually a minimum of two weeks) with a foster family. The initial assessment takes place in the home of the owner and assessors are asked to take one of their own dogs with them, so they can see how the dog responds to strange huskies and strange people. The assessor also takes careful note of the relationship between the dog and its owner and a variety of other possible issues. If there are no obvious issues, we then find a foster home which would be suitable for the dog. It is important that this second stage of assessment takes place over a longer period of time - often dogs will be "cowed" by a change of circumstance and will not show their true character for a few days. Then, once they feel a little settled, their true colours gradually come out. Sometimes a dog will be submissive at first but once it feels confident, it might start showing signs of dominant aggression. Similarly the opposite might happen and the dog which starts off snapping and snarling with fear aggression, turns into a calm sweetheart once he/she feels safe. The 3/4 month old husky/Mal cross we are fostering at the moment was very much like this latter case. He was a nightmare for the first day or two - going for every dog which went near him. Now, a few days later, he is very much more happy in his role as junior member of a big pack. Because he is so young, however, and because he had such a bad start in life, we will foster him for a few months to ensure that once he does go to his new home, his temperament is bombproof. We would love to be able to say that we will take in all comers and that no healthy dog will ever be put down, but realistically that just is not possible. I agree that all dogs can be worked with and their behaviour changed, but that presupposes that the resources, time and safe space is available for that work to happen - in reality it isn't. The money we would need to spend to rehabilitate one human aggressive dog to the extent that we would be 100% confident of rehoming it, would probably enable us to take in and rehome 20 or 30 other unwanted Siberians. In the end, this is what it comes down to - time, people and money - and we don't have enough of any of them to be able to save all the dogs which need saving, so we save those we can! How do we assess huskys to be re homed ? Does the husky you require re homing come with full pedigree papers ? No sorry it does not sorry ! Fail Unfortunately this is true of The Siberian Husky Club of Great Britain Welfare Scheme, which since December 2006 only takes in KC registered huskies bred by or owned by club members although this policy was adopted out of necessity (their welfare scheme was collapsing around their ears at the time) rather than design. SHWA (UK) however, takes in any purebred Siberian - registered or unregistered. In fact, something like 80% of the 400+ dogs we have taken in and rehomed have been unregistered. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkyries Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 No disrespect mick but what happens to a dog you assess that fails, if you assess a dog for someone else and it fails as dog and people aggressive but is still in foster care for adoption as my loki was. Luckily loki is not aggressive in any way but it could have been true and I could have got a very aggressive dog ?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 poor loki bless her shes sooo good ive only met her the once but theres no way she cud have failed a assement she was around loads ov people and dogs and didnt make a sound - not that i can remember she deffo didnt try n attack any1 shes lovely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raindog Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 No disrespect mick but what happens to a dog you assess that fails, if you assess a dog for someone else and it fails as dog and people aggressive but is still in foster care for adoption as my loki was. Luckily loki is not aggressive in any way but it could have been true and I could have got a very aggressive dog ?????? If we assess a dog and decide it has too many issues for us to deal with, we recommend that the owners try the RSPCA or the Dogs Trust. It is harsh, but I don't see what choice we have. I wouldn't put my dogs or family at risk by taking on an aggressive dog, so I don't see how I can expect someone else to. The RSPCA and the Dogs Trust both have the resources to work with such dogs - we don't! It really is that simple. Like I said - I agree with Scott that any dog can be changed given enough time and resources. Unfortunately we don't have them! Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkyries Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 but what if the assessment is wrong ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raindog Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 but what if the assessment is wrong ???? I guess if someone really felt that our assessment was wrong, we would get a different person to reassess the dog. It is interesting however, that this has never happened. What normally happens when we "fail" a dog is that the owner then admits that the dog has the problems we have identified and which they have tried to keep from us. If the owners are willing, we then try to work with them to sort out some of the problems (usually problems that they have caused). Having said that, the assessment process is carried out by humans - and all humans are fallible, so of course mistakes will be made occasionally. No system is perfect, but all we can do is our best for the majority of unwanted Siberians. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkyries Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 I’m sorry if this is coming across wrong but in all the time I’ve had my girl, I’ve wondered how her assessment could have been so wrong. She’s a very loving girl loves her hugs and kisses, she loves attention and to play off lead with other dogs, but was assessed as being people and dog aggressive, the fact that because she failed an assessment my girl could have been put to sleep really bothers me, how many have been assessed wrong and lost their lives ???? She was assessed by SHWA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISDW Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 I’m sorry if this is coming across wrong but in all the time I’ve had my girl, I’ve wondered how her assessment could have been so wrong. She’s a very loving girl loves her hugs and kisses, she loves attention and to play off lead with other dogs, but was assessed as being people and dog aggressive, the fact that because she failed an assessment my girl could have been put to sleep really bothers me, how many have been assessed wrong and lost their lives ???? She was assessed by SHWA Who was in foster with when you got her, a SHWA fosterer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raindog Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 I’m sorry if this is coming across wrong but in all the time I’ve had my girl, I’ve wondered how her assessment could have been so wrong. She’s a very loving girl loves her hugs and kisses, she loves attention and to play off lead with other dogs, but was assessed as being people and dog aggressive, the fact that because she failed an assessment my girl could have been put to sleep really bothers me, how many have been assessed wrong and lost their lives ???? She was assessed by SHWA I would guess very few, if any. The only dogs which we have had to put to sleep were dogs which actually attacked and bit humans. I don't know the exact number, but it is less than 5 in over three years. It works the other way as well - occasionally we get dogs which pass their assessment only for us to discover that they have serious issues once they are being fostered. As I said, in any situation where people are using their judgement, mistakes can be made. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkyries Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 well i guess Loki was just lucky i found her and took her in giving her the chance to shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raindog Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 well i guess Loki was just lucky i found her and took her in giving her the chance to shine Absolutely!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah16 Posted May 28, 2010 Report Share Posted May 28, 2010 I have only just come across this thread so apologies for not putting my point across sooner. As the Midlands Co ordinator I organised the assessment for Loki and liased with the assessor after he had been. Yes Loki has shown aggression to other dogs, I know this as a fact. One of my close friends who I trust completley had met her previously and she had gone for one of her dogs. Loki had also been rehomed previously and they had failed 'apparently' due to issues Loki was showing and her snapping at a child. I knew all of this before the assessment was completed but gave her benefit of the doubt and sent my assessor, I advised him not to take his own dogs, but to see how she interacted with the other dogs at the house- approx 5 other huskies. Loki was being rehomed to us from another welfare organisation as they said they could not carry on with the dog load and were closing. (However still running ) Once at the home, the assessor was NOT invited into the home, however was left standing in the garden. When asked about other dogs, the lady at the house said she would bring Loki out seperatly as she had to keep her seperate due to her having issues with the other dogs - in my opinion an immediate fail for SHWA for the reasons I shall give shortly. Also during the assessment when the assessor stroked Loki she snapped at him a couple of times and repeatedly bared her teeth, she was the same with the owner. The assessor adviced me that Loki was a fail due to these issues and I agreed. Whilst it is amazing that you have the time, space and resources to put the much needed work into rehabilitating Loki and making her the dog she is today, Im afraid as a welfare organisation SHWA just can not do that. Put yourself in my position, your the co ordinator, you are given this information by a long standing trustworthy volunteer - what do you do??? I personally would not be willing to bring a dog into my home, to my dogs who I know has shown dog aggression issues - that is not fair on my pack. Due to this reason I would never expect any of my volunteers to do the same. Also you need to look at rehoming, where is she going to go? The majority of homes coming to SHWA are looking for dogs to add to their pack? Do you tell a potential home she has had aggression issues and hope they are willing to work on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted May 28, 2010 Report Share Posted May 28, 2010 Also during the assessment when the assessor stroked Loki she snapped at him a couple of times and repeatedly bared her teeth, she was the same with the owner. to be fair on loki and linda, i met Loki not long after they got her and went to stroke her and she snapped at me, she hated her back being touched with a passion and yet touch her anywhere else and she was fine. I wonder if she was mistreated somewhere along the line? Linda did a lot of work with her and now i can stroke her all down her back and she doesn't flinch at all which is great and shows how much time and effort has gone into working with her I agree with what you're saying Sarah, putting other dogs at risk always has to be taken into account and shwa of course have to look out for all the dogs, not just one they are working with. End of the day, Loki got a home she deserved and with someone who was able to give her what she needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiko mummy Posted May 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2010 well i just dont believe what im hearing loki snap at a child i had my 11 month old son with loki and she was brill with him would never say agressive she was gentle with him and she gets on fine with her two other two dogs at home and ehh humman agressive first time i met loki she was jumping all over me and loved attention let me rub her all over no prob and scott even got the brush out and combed her i didnt see any teeth. just shows how many dogs are labled maybey it was where she was being kept and treated that caused this behavour because she def aint like tht now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah16 Posted May 28, 2010 Report Share Posted May 28, 2010 As I mentioned when I put 'apparently' next to the bit about the child - this is not first hand experience of us and so didn't enter into the assessment. I only went on what the assessor saw that day. I would love to hear peoples thoughts on what else we could do?? Bring in all dogs regardless of assessment and put our own dogs and families at risk just in case they were having an off day??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkyries Posted May 28, 2010 Report Share Posted May 28, 2010 　sarah16 Ok first off Loki is a she lol a girl, from day one when we went to meet her at the foster carers home, the first thing Loki did was jump on my knee giving me the biggest kiss ever. Don’t you tell me that’s an aggressive dog, I had Odin with me and they played happily from the word go, no sign of any aggression in any way. Loki plays off lead with lots of dogs large and small, we have never had any issues with her and have never had to do any work to rehabilitate her in any way what so ever. She came into my house good as gold not one single issue, she as never been crated or put in a room and I have never had a problem. Loki as been on meets on camp and stayed at Sarah’s house with her dogs and children. So where the hell do you get off coming on after this thread was over and tell the forum that I have an aggressive dog which is so not true. I totally can’t believe you , just look at the photos of meets you can see how good she is also at camp another member adopted Loki for the weekend, she loved her and last weekends meet a man she as never seen before walked Loki round as he did not have a dog of his own. Is that what you call people aggressive. I’m sorry but you people need to get a grip of the real world. Please all you people that know Loki my girl post up is she as bad as she as just been made out . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah16 Posted May 28, 2010 Report Share Posted May 28, 2010 Linda, as I mentioned you have done a great job with Loki and I am a firm believer in a dogs environment being a major part in their behaviour. Not sure where I put that she was a boy though... You have made comments through the topic about wanting to know how assessments were done and where yours went wrong. So I have given the story of what happened and openly asked what you would have done in the situation and what you think as a welfare organisation who do bloody hard work we should do. As you mention yes I have seen the pictures/ read previous posts by other members and seen what they have to say about her. I was just answering queries - not making judgements on your dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiko mummy Posted May 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2010 well really i cant say wat my ideas would be on what else yous can do because noone has really answered my question on how the dogs are actually assessed so i dont know what it is that yous do? i suppose from post that i have read noone has the funding to give these dogs a chance. noone seems to rehabiltate them which is a shame if that is the case:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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