religion-a discussion,not a place to try and cause trouble.

[Lil Miss Bump]

am loving reading this :-)

+1s all round xxx

[Sparks]

i dont believe it to be honest, and some people use it as an excuse for lots of different things.

[Wizadora]

I'm a kind of atheist pagan. I am able to appreciate the wonders of nature, the importance of love and the difference between good and evil, but I don't need to artificially create some kind of supernatural entity to justify it.

In fact, I believe that organised religions have been one of the major forces for evil in the world, which is why my signature always includes Voltaire's quote: ""As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities"

For me, all religions are absurd. The suggestion that "god" exists is no more logical or provable than the suggestion that "I have fairies at the bottom of my garden"

Even if there were a god, whose god would he/she be? - the god of christianity, islam, judaism, Zeus, Krishna, Pan (he'd be my choice if there were a god) or any of the million other gods humans have created to explain their lives since we first crawled out of the primeval mud????????

Perhaps even more absurd than the notion of god, is the notion that any one religion's idea of god is the right one - crazy stuff!

Just my humble opinion

Mick

Imagine there's no countries

It isn't hard to do

Nothing to kill or die for

And no religion too

Imagine all the people

Living life in peace

It will never happen but the above lyrics are so true.

Pretty much sums up my views too, i have had some wierd ghostly expereiences so although i believe in science, i'm still open to the fact that there may be forces or things we havent discovered about us, this world and other worlds yet.

[AttilaVikingsDemon]

i dont believe it to be honest, and some people use it as an excuse for lots of different things.

You're absolutely right, its been abused and used for certain agendas, it has enslaved men of every religion. The upside is, if the followers of their respective religions are actually following their religion to the letter, the world would be better as they would at least make better people out of themselves. Myself, I believe more like zeitgeist explained here in Religion; the best story ever sold http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNf-P_5u_Hw

I would not try and change anyones belief, but nowadays, people are not so tolerant as they say. I think everything is in cycles, thats how the universe works, and we make legends and faiths to fill the void with entertaining stories. I respect other people's beliefs, but they will not take away mine either. I believe in nature and the power of it to heal herself, but we can all learn something from another's point of view-one thing is certain-no one has all the right answers.

[Kirbysowner]

I am a Buddhist scientist so I don't really believe in any form of higher consciousness that is omnipotent ,omnipresent and omniscient. I don't know exactly how and I know we will never know why we were created, nor do I know if it's even possible to ask those questions. Nonetheless, after examining the current state of human religious practice, specially the ones involving the Judaic God, to me it seems extremely contradictory. There are an infinite amount of questions left unanswered for which religious people can only say "we cannot understand God and that is why it is unanswered. However, if we cannot understand God, how can we even begin to try and comprehend things such as whether God is good or bad, or the ultimate plan God has for every body. If we apply something for one thing, it must be applied for everything else, otherwise we risk fall in fights aimed to do nothing but create chaos just because two people think differently. Furthermore, time after time we continue to see sects, cults, and religions surfacing; some die some become nothing but a social joke - Scientology anyone? Yet, when it comes to the main religions, who is to say Hinduism is less real than christianity? Christianity bases its foundation on the circular proof that god is real because the bible says so, and the bible is real because is god's inspired word. To me that is illogical. I could continue on and on but at the end of the day is whatever makes people happy, and as long as you don't hurt anyone I won't stop you from doing it.

As far as why bad things happen and why does god allow them? it is simple, god created free will and things happen because we or nature makes them happen and it has nothing to do with god, unless your religious faction is derived from the pre-reformation factions that surfaced to challenge the original catholic church and believe that god has a big plan and makes things happen.

a harsh comment to make but i think it is funny as it is truthful: Religion is like a penis, as long as you don't shove on someone's face or down kids' throats it is all fine.

[stormchaser09]

I don't know what to believe and as a family we have recently had abit of a discussion on the God bit.

my niece was killed in a car accident last September aged 19. Her mum has a very strong faith and in no way 'blames' god for what happened but uses her faith toget her through it. Personally I found it very hard to deal with, but a few coincedences after the crash gave me reason to 'hope' that there was something greater going on. We discussed scattering the ashes on her birthday which was just a few weeks later and a few minutes after we spoke the most amazing rainbow I have ever seen appeared on the spot on the mountain behind the house where she was to go. and on the evening before the funeral was the most fabulous sunset as we were going to the church. just little things but like a sign that she was ok.

Please be gentle if you think its stupid but its all still a bit raw and I would like to think she is ok 'somewhere'

[Aramek]

I think the most important thing here, is that we all can see that, no matter if you have faith or not, you don't need to have it to be a good person.

And that is the first step into understanding each other better.

[SarahNukka&Shadow]

Interesting subject.. have to say I think Mick hit the nail on the head for me!

I grew up with a Athiest Father and a Christian Mother so different opinions on all sides none of which really seemed to suit me.

I found paganism as a teenager and still have my pentagram (although alot of my family missunderstood my wearing it as either a phase or that I was devil worshiping!? ) and if pushed to name a religion I would say its closest to what I beleive but like Mick none of the organised religieons really had it exactly right IMO, they are all just what people THINK and are therefore phalable.

I do really like the director Kevin Smiths theory that instead of having BELEIFS maybe its better to have IDEAS. Ideas can be altered, be adjusted and be accepting of change based on information and knowledge gained, where as beliefs are ingrained and set, people live and die based of beliefs, better to keep evolving with every new idea.

And like many others have said I have my own ideas and dont push them on other people. I prefer to share and share alike, if someone asks I will share and if I ask then share back but respect is key, no pushing!

[Tikaani&Aiyana]

What a great thread!

Ok so my Dad is a vicar so of course I have been brought up with a christian belief (church of england). We went to church as children but when we reached the age of about 13 where allowed to choose if we attended or not, needless to say at that age we all stopped going! (I have 2 older sisters)

My dad is a very down to earth cool vicar, he doesn't like to push beliefs onto anyone but he is open to talk to about belief should I ever want to. we often joke about how people assume that just because we are vicars daughters that we would go to church too. And he rides a motorbike

Its strange because I am used to the religion bit and it seems natural to me to believe that there is a god. I am a very open minded person and am willing to listen to everyone's point of view and beliefs as long as it is not being forced upon me.

I am normally a 'I will believe it when I see it' person. My partner says that he can see his mum who passed away 7 years ago and he also sees other ghosts/spirits when we are in old buildings. Since I have been with him there have been quite a few occasions when something has caught my eye when I have been in the same room as him. I always ask him if there was something there and he says yes there is a boy on the stairs. It doesn't freak me out as I have never had reason to be scared but it does make me kinda believe in ghosts/spirits.

I am also a believer that everything happens for a reason, there have been too many things happen in my life that seemed to happen for a reason and something good has come out of it whether it was immediately or further down the line.

Back to the god thing I would like to believe that something is there as I do think that when you die you go onto something else.

But also when i was a baby, not very old, I developed meningitits. My parents said it was touch and go as to whether I survived or not and the doctors were convinced that if i did survive I would have brain damage. They had the local vicar come and bless me every day in hospital and i turned out fine! So there are little things that make me want to believe and think that there must be something there.

[Lil Miss Bump]

well seems as so many of you have shared i think i will to........i dont know what i believe........

if i tell someone they are in my thoughts and prayers, they truely are, i pray all the time, i'm just not sure who it's to....i know that sounds really flakey but i tend not to believe in things that haven't been proven to me.

i KNOW there are people watching over me....my grandad, my best friend kev, my grandma-and they are protecting me...how else would i still be alive after so much stuff that has happened to me?

shortly after my grandad died i was going into our garage and the door collapsed on me-my grandad was there talking to me, telling me that everything was going to be alright and that i wouldn't get hurt....and i didn't......i was the skinniest thing you've ever seen-i should've had so many broken bones from that....

i dont believe everything in the bible- my nana is a baptist and has been for as long as i can remember.....some ythings-yes, morals of stories, ways to behave-respect etc....but do i believe that someone parted the sea? no. do i believe that we were all 'created' by one person... no

to me evolution is a proven fact. fossils are there-dna is there-skeletons are there-this means they were alive-FACT.......

i believe that jesus did exist.....but if you think about it.....if someone now said they were the son of god and did all the things jesus apparently did then they would be sectioned-not worshipped....

i believe in ghosts and spirits-i have seen enough of them, i have enough 'feeling' when i go into somewhere or am near someone.....

i believe the body is just a shell.....like sea creatures that take on a different shell each time they grow...

i believe that some people are destined to meet again....that if you lose someone you love, sometimes you then come into contact with someone that you think 'i know this person' or 'god they're just like.....'

a few years after my grandad died-who was my everything....joe (who i call dad) came into my life-and his is just like my grandad......it's like my grandad is either 'in' joe or my grandad sensed a kindred spirit and sent me to him...i dont know.

i have the words 'omnia causa fiunt' which means everything happens for a reason tattoo'd on my arm-and i believe that is true.....everything DOES happen for a reason

xxx

[Sarah]

I was brought up as a Christian, i went to church and believe in god.

When I married..... Marc wasn't wanting a church wedding, but I could not marry anywhere else, I wanted god to witness my vows and to hold me accountable if i ever broke them - and boy has he lol

I think religion gives some people a comfort - how many of us pray when someone or a pet is ill? I do, it gives me comfort that there is something beyond this rock we live on

[loriam]

i'm not very religious but i love to study religion. i'm more knowledgeable about catholicism as i went to catholic school for quite sometime. i've studied other aspects of christianity including evangelists, jehovah's witnesses, etc. i know a bit about paganism and i'm fascinated by islam. ideally, i would love to practice buddhism but i don't think i could ever give up my attachment to material possessions or simple luxuries (like food, oh how i love food). i think religion, no matter which one, is important to so many people because it offers answers to otherwise unanswerable questions. in this people find comfort, as sometimes if there's something we don't know, it scares us. to me it seems that most religions teach a basic principal of right and wrong, bringing people up to be good, loving, honest people. i feel privileged to live in the states where there are so many different people of different religions so attaining knowledge of these is fairly easy.

while i believe that religion is good, extremists are people that make it a terrible thing. really, they ought to practice what they preach. for example, there's a baptist group that has been picketing at the funerals of dead soldiers saying things like, "god is killing americans because our country accepts homosexuality!" their hate speech is absolutely disgusting. not saying that baptists are terrible, but this group is.

on another note, did anyone else hear that there is absolutely no looting in japan? i enjoyed a discussion recently about how natural disasters cause anarchy in every region (during the flooding of hurricane katrina, many photos of people robbing stores were taken, just one example). after the earthquake in japan, there were stories of drivers being polite towards each other despite backed up traffic, shoppers helping shopkeepers put items back on the shelves, and even the homeless lending their blankets to the stranded business men. here's a cool link of translated tweets from japanese people, very interesting read. i also read somewhere that not one vending machine was broken down, that in fact the owners of food and drink machines were opening them to the needy. the main religions there are shintoism and buddhism.

so again, while i'm not very religious, i may believe in a higher power but i don't believe in fate or i'm not even sure what i believe, i find that religion in and of itself is fascinating.

[matakibud]

Hard to say what I beleive in. I've been called everything from Pagan, to Agnostic, to Atheist. While I don't believe in "god" as most organized religions preach, I do believe there is something out there guiding us. I'm part Native American, and most of my faith is based on the traditional Lakota Sioux beliefs that there are "spirits" helping us every day. I think every living thing has a "spirit" that can and will act upon us. I also believe in reincarnation as Buddhism teaches. Each "soul" or "spirit" is born again into another life form, though I tend to believe that we as humans have "spirits" that are reborn several times throughout the centuries (hence genetic memory) and I myself have no explanation for some of the things I know how to do (things I was never taught and never read about, but knew how to do anyway).

I honestly believe that the bible is the most read, most popular work of pure fiction ever written. If it had been written by "jesus" himself, I may give it more credence, but since it wasn't (and there is no known progenitor of the book) it is only fifth and sixth-hand stories to me.

I do, however believe in ghosts, simply because I think my Grandparents still inhabit their house (too many things have happened to describe here).

But it is also my nature to question authority in whatever form it takes. I don't believe anything I read, or most of what I'm told, until I have done my own "research".

Just remember one very true phrase "History is written by the winner"

[Grumpy Busted]

I can honestly say that the only time i have really prayed was when my dad was very ill in hospital, that was 10 years ago this coming Wednesday the 16th March, that is how long he has been dead.

Religion is an excuse for someone to have a war and kill others.

Just my opinion for what its worth,

[Mazz]

I am a Christian. I believe in God and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Spirit. I go to church on a regular basis, and currently serve as a pastor. I do not know everything there is to know about God, and I realize that I fall short more often than not. But I also know, that when I do fall, God is there to help. How do I know? Because of my life experiences. I have fallen so many times, and yet time after time, after time, there He is, picking me up, helping me understand, and giving me strength.

When my mother passed away several years ago, it was a cold, cloudy Easter Sunday. I had been at the nursing home all day. One of the nurses came and and said I should go home for a bit, and that if anything happened, they would let me know. So I drove home for a bit. When I got home, I made a sandwich, sat down at the kitchen table, and looked out the window to the west at the grey, cold clouds. Just then, the phone rang. My mom was gone. As I sat back down at the table, the clouds opened, and beams of sunlight cascaded down to Earth. I felt a warm feeling that I have never felt before, nor since, and I knew my mom was in Heaven.

For me, faith in God gives me a purpose. I draw upon my faith hundreds of times a day, every decision I make, every action that I take, centers around my faith. Does that make me a better person than someone who does not believe? Absolutely not! It just makes me who I am. There are good people in all cross sections of life, just as there are bad. Whether you believe in God or not, whether you practice a form of religion, be it Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Christianity, or whether you choose to not practice any religion, it is your choice and your choice alone. Some of my best friends do not believe in God, do not attend a church, and feel that religion is the cause of many of the problems this World has encountered. But from my perspective, it's not religion that has caused the problems, but man's misuse of religion.

Anyway, that's where I stand on the topic.

[ShadowKia&Flynn]

some really interesting thoughts:

i was raised a roman catholic but lost all that faith when my granddad died about 16 years or so ago and was guided by a friend to look at other things when i came across paganism and found that it was 100% what i truely believe i dont beleive in a god i beleive in many gods and goddessess whom all guide us through our lives i do also beleive in guardian angels and truely believe that my granddad is mine. i beleive in what we do to others will be returned to us 3 fold and that everything happens for a reason just dont always understand why at the time. i dont push my releigion on anyone but i am always willing to explain if need be.

one of my favourite sayings is "no war has ever been faught in the name of paganism".

[Lil Miss Bump]

tell me more andrea........i dont know anything about paganism at all xxx

[valkyries]

i'm also interested Andrea please tell us more xxxxx

[ShadowKia&Flynn]

Bear with me on this, there is no one definition of it as there are quite a few branches so to speak such as egyption, celtic, norse, greek to name a few each one slightly different. there are active pagans which do the whole skyclad (naked worshiping) thing but there are others like myself that dont there is no pressure you can practice as little or as much as you like. you are all aready aware of 2 pagan festivals easter and christmas easter was originally a festival celebrating the goddess Eoster and the spring equinox and christmas is a celebation of the winter solstice but when the church took over inorder to convince alot of people to move over to their religion they kept the same dates to make it easier for people, alot of the pagan traditions are still carried out today such as giving of easter eggs/chocolate bunnies and christmas wreaths and candles etc.

please let me add i dont wanna upset anyone with my above comments about the church.

hope this helps a little

andrea

[Lil Miss Bump]

give us more andrea!!!

[ShadowKia&Flynn]

diz i can lend you my books lol think i may be here all night lol

[Lil Miss Bump]

ooooh yes please andrea!!! let me know when ur around and i'll bez around to pick them up!!! xxx

[ShadowKia&Flynn]

i can prob drop them off for you at some point hun if you want?

[Lil Miss Bump]

whicheva and-u know me i like bezzing about in my car!! lol just gimme a text if you have a spare 10mins and i'll come grab em or you can come see my monsters!

[26nikita]

I am a Christian. I'm what you would call a baby Christian even though I have always been one. My mom made us go to church until we were baptized and then let us make our own decisions about whether we wanted to continue to go to church. I was still really young when this happened and I realize now I was not ready to be baptized. I soon stopped going to the church because the pastors wife didn't like me and she never bothered to hide it from me. When you are that young and treated without the love the pastor always talked about, well.. I wasn't strong enough back then to overcome this obstacle. I "dropped" out of church and just lived my life. I never lost my belief in God, but I basically put my Christian training on hold. Not sure how else to describe that... Anyway, much later in life both my brother and sister became born again Chrsitians. Not together, in their own way, but almost at the same time. When this happened, it seemed that I was seeing Christianity every where I looked. It made me sit up and take notice. I got curious and well...my Christian training is back on. I have a long road ahead of me and lots to learn but I know without a doubt I am heading in the right direction. I am so not comfortable approaching people to talk about Jesus and do not do it. I honestly feel the best testimony is my life. Really that is how God caught my attention with the things he was showing me. I really feel he was telling me it was time to come back home to him. If you are curious as to what I believe Christianity is all about, watch one of Joyce Meyers tv shows.